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Justice Department asks judge to hold Trump team in contempt over Mar-a-Lago case (washingtonpost.com)

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[–]FitziTheArtist 1095 points1096 points  (99 children)

This stolen documents case is so much worse than we are being allowed to know about and it’s already jaw-dropping.

[–]imzelda 360 points361 points  (23 children)

I wish so badly that we could know the full story. It’s absolutely wild already.

[–]BalledEagle88 365 points366 points  (15 children)

This is the most public straight-forwardly transparent case that's ever been behind closed doors.

Edit to add. We don't even need to speculate (let alone prove) motive because he's already admitted to taking the classified docs (a crime that the orange rapist made a felony instead of a misdemeanor while in office himself). Then it was proven with a warrant that his attorneys lied (crimes). Now the attorneys are facing consequences for being overwhelmingly incompetent at their job (which can be a crime for certain occupations like doctors, nurses accountants, construction workers, delivery drivers, cashiers. Oh, and lawyers)

[–]jeagerkinght 56 points57 points  (1 child)

should also be a crime for cops, not expected of them

[–]Appropriate_Chart_23 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It should be a crime to be incompetent at any job that directly faces the public.

I know my opinion doesn’t mean much, but we ensure doctors, lawyers, engineers, and other professions are able and capable to perform their jobs, because they are so important to the public’s well being.

These professions are required to be college educated, and to prove their abilities via examination. They are held to a code of ethics which is managed by other members of the profession. If one is found to be out of bounds of the code of ethics, there are serious consequences including losing your license to practice in said profession.

We absolutely need to extend this to politics. No “profession” is closer to the public than that of politicians. They should be upheld to the same standards and practices that other public-facing professions are held to.

We have way too many monkey-brained politicians getting in way over their heads, and they are pulling cretins from the swamp from whence they emerged with them. It’s a dangerous road and will get worse before it gets better if changes aren’t made.

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      [–]splashbruhs 341 points342 points  (43 children)

      At this point, it’s abundantly clear to anyone with even the slightest power of deduction that:

      1. Trump ran to get on tv/start a network

      2. Trump’s authoritarian crime buddies got him elected against his will because he’s a pussy

      3. Once in office, said buddies called in all their favors from his last 30 years of “success” and destroyed the public’s confidence in the US justice system, wrecked the tax code, removed environmental protections, etc

      4. Trump realizes his time as a useful idiot is over and that being President is the only thing keeping him out of jail

      5. Trump panics and stokes a fervor in his “supporters” to cover his ass in case he loses

      6. He loses. Jan 6th happens

      7. Trump realizes his threadbare ass is no longer covered and takes as much leverage with him as he can on the way out

      It’s not even complicated. It’s obvious and simple.

      The problem is that the US government’s internal system of checks and balances has always been predicated on a bunch of handshakes and gentleman’s agreements with regard to the Exec office, and no one imagined somebody so craven from outside the political sphere would get elected and then stomp around like a bull in a china shop with absolutely no shame.

      We treat the Pres with kid gloves and always have, like they are a little king and not the employee of the people.

      [–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (19 children)

      I agree that trump was used as a tool. The real real mastermind would never ever ever reveal themself(s)

      [–]karo_scene 88 points89 points  (13 children)

      Vlad

      The Koch Brothers $$$$

      Rebecca Mercer $$$$$$$

      Steve Miller, Bannon and other strategists; Trump has the strategic ability of a mongoose.

      Solved. There are the masterminds for you. Have a nice day.

      [–]Behndo-Verbabe 37 points38 points  (8 children)

      Most definitely if people haven’t realized it by now Reagan and the republicans changed tax laws corporate laws and many others to lay the groundwork for today. The oligarchs (CEO’s, billionaires) are ready too take the country they’ve waited for. People have been conned into thinking working 3 jobs at minimum wage is fine being buried in student debt is fine buying a new car phone whatever when they come out is fine and it’s amazing so many buy the corporate lies for the egregious price gouging going on.

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          [–]bluespacejaguar 27 points28 points  (0 children)

          Best breakdown I've read. No hyperbole.

          [–]ReasonableOutrage 28 points29 points  (1 child)

          Americans living in this period of time take democracy for granted and treat it like a gameshow, and the media uses public interest in muckraking to stir up the most extreme candidates because they make for better content, which exacerbates the problem of people not caring about the political process or taking it seriously.

          America needs to prosecute Trump and hold him legally culpable for his crimes or this whole country’s corrupt system and any chance for redemption it might have, isn’t going to outlast him for very long.

          [–]logicallyillogicalNevada 18 points19 points  (6 children)

          Yup, the main reason trump announced he’s running again is because he knows indictments are coming. His only hope to make the investigation more complicated to stall long enough for him to be re-elected. god help us all if he does win in ‘24. I think it’s a slim chance he does win, but not saying that with certainty at all.

          [–]breecher 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          Your explanation does get to the core of things, but it also lack mentioning the complicity of the entire Republican party. There is a reason why Trump could get elected Republican candidate and president, because the Republican party had prepared the ground for a candidate like him for decades.

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              [–]CassandraAnderson 5193 points5194 points  (427 children)

              One of the key areas of disagreement centers on the Trump legal team’s repeated refusal to designate a custodian of records to sign a document attesting that all classified materials have been returned to the federal government, according to two of these people. The Justice Department has repeatedly sought an unequivocal sworn written assurance from Trump’s team that all such documents have been returned, and Trump’s team has been unwilling to designate a custodian of records to sign such a statement while also giving assurances that they have handed documents back.

              Contempt charges certainly seem appropriate here. Trump and his lawyers literally had to be dragged kicking and screaming into complying in any meaningful way and continued to try to obstruct Justice while using their soap boxes to try to sway public opinion against the FBI and justice system for the purposes of sowing doubt in MAGAdittoheads.

              [–]Marathon2021 1176 points1177 points  (103 children)

              After Bobb got thrown under the bus, I think it's less of a question of "not willing to" name someone ... and more of a circumstance of "can't find anyone willing to" associate their name on this.

              So hopefully DOJ will eventually propose to the court "...well then DJT himself should sign the attestation if he can't find anyone do it for him."

              [–]unscriptedtitanic 732 points733 points  (82 children)

              This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading it. No one on his team wants to take the fall for Trump's actions. He, himself, should attest that everything has been returned since he was the one that took everything and then lied to the whole damn country about it.

              [–]throwawayinthe818 419 points420 points  (76 children)

              Yeah. My theory all along is that neither the lawyers, nor Trump, nor anyone else, knows exactly what was removed and where it is now. They stalled and stalled with their stolen election crap, then when time ran out they randomly threw stuff in boxes and sent it wherever.

              [–]Marathon2021 245 points246 points  (28 children)

              neither the lawyers, nor Trump, nor anyone else, knows exactly what was removed and where it is now

              Exactly. And they're making Donnie build the evidentiary case for that --

              DJT: "Yeah, so what ... I took a bunch of Top Secret documents, and sure ... I lost track of a few of them. I mean who doesn't lose some paperwork in their house from time to time, am I right?"

              DOJ Attorney: "Well, Mr. Trump -- not everyone misplaces a document titled 'Iranian Nuclear Secrets' in their house every day..."

              [–]ViolaNguyenCalifornia 71 points72 points  (24 children)

              Now I'm curious if a reckless disregard for the security of classified documents is a crime.

              I'm guessing it is, but I don't know for sure.

              [–]unique_passive 148 points149 points  (18 children)

              Yes, and it’s what they’re going after Trump for.

              Basically, the precedent was set (before Hillary’s emails) that you kind of have to prove that it wasn’t just some earnest mistake. Which is why Hillary was ultimately not charged. There were some shady things, but nobody had any evidence that any person involved intentionally did the wrong thing.

              The Trump situation basically just constantly spews forth evidence that everyone involved in the crime (which is currently still happening) knows that they’re doing the wrong thing, and acting in bad faith. Which is why it just keeps getting worse, and why the lawyers are potentially going to be at risk of criminal prosecution themselves. They’re involved in a crime still occurring.

              [–]Name_Anxiety 86 points87 points  (7 children)

              Trumps situation is SO MUCH WORSE. He willfully brought home TS information! Hillary hosted an email server instead of using a .gov email. The government does not send classified emails over .gov email (at least intentionally).

              [–]DaoFerret 41 points42 points  (1 child)

              It’s been a while, and there was some concern about some documents on her server, but if I remember correctly, they hadn’t been classified at the time they were sent, and were only classified later on, so them being sent that way hadn’t been a violation at the time (again, it’s been a while, so I might be misremembering).

              [–]ArcticISAF 13 points14 points  (0 children)

              It's been a long time too here, but I remember the same. I looked at the emails on some heavy conservative site (like 'Wow bombshell emails blah blah!'), maybe 30-40 of the emails? Could be off. Anyway, the ones I remember had been classified something like a few months or a year after the email was sent (stamped on the email itself on the side I think). The things too seemed like 'technically classified' imo, like a Guantamano Bay prisoner name, maybe something about a request to transfer some form of info on them? Some other things like her personal flight details, arriving at this time at this airport, needing pickup. I don't remember. Someone can correct or add, I don't mind.

              [–]carymb 18 points19 points  (4 children)

              And as far as I've ever understood it, after she started doing that, the ruzzians did hack in to the regular State Dept. email system... So, not using it may have been more secure and couldn't have been less secure than not using her own servers? Plus the few 'classified' references in her emails, were due to the government's tendency to decide after the fact that they should classify things that are already public knowledge; like, we bomb someplace, it's on CNN, but the Pentagon classifies it anyway, just to be dicks...?

              Don't see how that can be seen as the same thing as removing nuclear secrets marked "Top Secret" all over, and putting them in a box you label 'lolol'.

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                  [–]PlumbCrazy1979 50 points51 points  (1 child)

                  Mike Lindell will sign.

                  [–]Orwell83 43 points44 points  (0 children)

                  Or Kanye. Maybe that's why Trump was having lunch with him and Nick Fuentes.

                  [–]PointlessTrivia 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                  His house which is also the private club-house for hundreds of rich foreigners.

                  [–]aquarain I voted 182 points183 points  (13 children)

                  It's been almost two years. If you can't sort through your crap to find all the old whatevers in two years you should never have been trusted with classified documents in the first place. They need to impound all of his stuff and sort through it themselves. No other answer is going to be definitive.

                  And of course he needs to be secured at the time so he can't move stuff around.

                  [–]winter_bluebird 117 points118 points  (2 children)

                  No shit he should never have been trusted with classified documents in the first place.

                  [–]morgecroc 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                  That was a question asked when he got elected. What do you do when the president shouldn't have a security clearance?

                  [–]Servanda123 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                  Don't elect him? Impeach him? There is ways to deal with this. The question is rather what do you do if half of the legislative branch are willing accomplices, that are happy to ignore their duty to protect the country they claim to love as long as it benefits them.

                  [–]Philo_T_FarnsworthKansas 76 points77 points  (4 children)

                  you should never have been trusted with classified documents in the first place

                  If only we had known.

                  [–]naegele 59 points60 points  (3 children)

                  Anyone paying attention did know.

                  [–]Flaky-Fish6922 24 points25 points  (0 children)

                  it still won't be definitive because it's been 2 years now. like... how do we know he hasn't sold stuff to "perfectly fine people"

                  they should still do it, but still

                  [–]Ishaan863 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                  If you can't sort through your crap to find all the old whatevers in two years you should never have been trusted with classified documents in the first place.

                  You saying Trump was unfit to be president or something?

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                    [–]xtossitallawayx 143 points144 points  (15 children)

                    I never thought that Trump was trying to steal Classified documents to sell later or to use as leverage - never once has he shown this level of planning and cunning.

                    The rampant narcissist would inherently love to surrounded by Classified material just so he could tell people how important he was while at the same time getting to push back against the annoying bureaucrats always trying to get him to do things like not destroy documents.

                    It fulfills all his childlike desires to feel important.

                    Then in chaos of moving his staff just tossed shit in boxes.

                    [–]0ldgrumpy1 68 points69 points  (1 child)

                    But he is certainly smart enough to do it if Putin or Saudi Arabia asked him to do it. If he already sold some as President, say via Jared to the Saudis, he is 1,000% likely to grab everything he thinks might be sellable, probably try to sort it himself, mix it up, put it back in wrong places and folders... pretty much exactly what it looks like he did.

                    [–]ReadySteady_GO 21 points22 points  (0 children)

                    I'm more in the side of him taking a bunch of stuff for leverage and favor amongst his plethora of shady business dealings in foreign countries

                    [–]unique_passive 59 points60 points  (0 children)

                    I’ll point out that he doesn’t have to show any level of planning or cunning in order to steal classified documents to sell or use as leverage. He was financially compromised by Russia AND North Korea, and not smart enough to recognise that “hey, we’ll wipe your debt clean if you can give us these documents” is a bad proposal for him to accept.

                    [–]IamaTleilaxuSpy 31 points32 points  (1 child)

                    He probably wouldn't let his staff get things packed up since he "won" the election.

                    [–]DropsTheMic 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                    That is precisely what happened. He didn't have to lift a finger, he just had to designate a time and sign some paperwork and white house staff would have packed all his shit, gotten all the documents to the archive, and he could have washed his hands of the whole thing and retired to Florida quietly. But this is Trump and no way his ego was letting that happen. His head was full of the "possession is 9/10ths of the law" that Roger Stone kept repeating, telling him to deny and deflect and refuse to cooperate. By the time he finally accepted reality the time for an organized, effortless move had passed

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                      [–]ZmanB-Bills 24 points25 points  (7 children)

                      Trump knows. Don't kid yourself. He knows exactly what he took. Granted, even after losing the election, he wasn't planning on leaving.

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                        [–]bishpaWashington 76 points77 points  (2 children)

                        Maybe he could ask John Barron or David Dennison to sign it?

                        [–]mwdoher 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                        Nah, just give Rudy a call… they can do a presser at the four seasons again.

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                          [–]Jagermonsta 65 points66 points  (6 children)

                          That’s the trap they are setting for them. They know he has more and are baiting them. Whoever signs next knows they are in trouble.

                          [–]Jhereg00 67 points68 points  (1 child)

                          I suspect it's just a delay tactic. Trump's lawyers have always used time as a weapon, stretching cases out for as long as possible. They're hoping this can take until he (or at least his party) can get back in power and pull the plug on the prosecution.

                          [–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (1 child)

                          It's not even that.

                          Some of the documents are gone. They would even know what documents are missing and Trump can't return them any more because they've been sold.

                          [–]metengrinwi 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                          Sounds to me like he should get a court-appointed public defense attorney

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                            [–]Jump_Yossarian_ 1395 points1396 points  (264 children)

                            Use this as evidence to get a search warrant for every single trump property.

                            [–]Literature-South 324 points325 points  (25 children)

                            Every single inch of every property. There is 100% a guest room at mar a lago that’s full of records and has been suspiciously booked solid for the last 3 years. I guarantee it

                            [–]Jump_Yossarian_ 181 points182 points  (6 children)

                            booked solid for the last 3 years.

                            paid for by taxpayers.

                            [–]pickledjello 97 points98 points  (2 children)

                            That guest room has the best PILLOWS, Believe me. his buddy Mike, great guy Mike, real successful, Mike, big company, wonderful company, sells them. Guest room pillows. bought 1, got one free, charged the government for 300. phenomenal pillows

                            [–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

                            Absorb so much piss. Tremendous amounts of piss. Trust me. I'm the expert on piss. Yuuuuge streams.

                            [–]Fishing4Beer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                            It is sad that I could hear it as I read it.

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                              [–]Modsda3 27 points28 points  (10 children)

                              And some 6' underground

                              [–]mysteryteamUS Virgin Islands 14 points15 points  (2 children)

                              Take me down. 6 underground

                              The ground beneath your feet...

                              [–]BKestRoiCalifornia 13 points14 points  (5 children)

                              Ivanna is absolutely resting on a pillow of documents.

                              [–]SuperstitiousPigeon5Massachusetts 29 points30 points  (1 child)

                              Her urn is, in a casket. A full sized casket, for a cremated woman, on a golf course, owned by her Ex abuser and rapist.

                              Absolutely nothing here to see folks. Nope, nothing at all.

                              [–]cratermoon 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                              Coincidentally, there was a story that made national news recently about a car found buried in the backyard of a mansion in Atherton, CA. It was reported stolen in 1992. https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/car-at-atherton-mansion-was-possibly-buried-for-insurance-fraud-purposes-police/

                              Completely unrelated, just sort of the same vibe.

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                                    [–]PunchDrinkLove 649 points650 points  (224 children)

                                    Including exhuming the grave of his ex-wife Ivana at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

                                    [–]tcmart14 394 points395 points  (79 children)

                                    Didn't some new just surface he was keeping TS documents in a storage unit next to his WWE belt?

                                    [–]PrincessElonMusk 138 points139 points  (24 children)

                                    And swords!

                                    [–]CMD-ZZZ 17 points18 points  (3 children)

                                    Didn’t realize Trump was such a mall ninja

                                    [–]MrElizabeth 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                    Mall Presidents keep swords, WWE title belts, and Top Secret documents nearby at all times.

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                                      [–]cc3142857 48 points49 points  (19 children)

                                      And his axe?

                                      [–]ll-phuture-ll 63 points64 points  (10 children)

                                      Careful with that axe, Eugene

                                      [–]aithendodgeWashington 17 points18 points  (8 children)

                                      One of these days, I’m going to…

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                                        [–]texasradioandthebigb 11 points12 points  (6 children)

                                        Who the fuck does he think he is? Gimli?

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                                          [–]extrakrizzle 56 points57 points  (1 child)

                                          Just "at least two" documents with "classification markings," which could be Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, or TS/SCI. Just based on where they ended up, how they got there (via a staff office in Northern VA), and the relative volume of lower-level classified materials vs higher tier stuff (think certain email threads, memos, rough drafts of trade agreements, etc)... I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that whatever these documents are, they're probably more innocuous than the ones Trump was personally keeping at Mar-a-Lago. Not necessarily though...

                                          I think the bigger concern here is that this is opening up a wider picture into how little controls there were around ALL classified materials in the last days of the administration (well, all of them, really...). This isn't just a matter of Trump carting off a few boxes of nuclear secrets to Florida, its his entire White House staff having free reign over who knows how many secrets. How many people snapped pictures on their phones before clocking out on their last day? Is there anyone in trump world who knows how many more "storage containers" might be out there? Is there any way to undo this clusterfuck?

                                          [–]2007Hokie I voted 14 points15 points  (5 children)

                                          The biggest surprise to me about that whole thing is that the belt isn't displayed prominently at his office.

                                          [–]Prawnking25 49 points50 points  (27 children)

                                          In his defense, where else do you store your classified documents?

                                          [–]HieronymusFront 66 points67 points  (6 children)

                                          In the basement. In a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the leopard".

                                          [–]NightOnTheSun 36 points37 points  (1 child)

                                          Personally, i keep them on my coffee table so the foreign dignitaries visiting my house have something to read while i use the bathroom.

                                          [–]Beltaine421 25 points26 points  (1 child)

                                          In a locked filing cabinet in an access controlled room on a secured military base. Why do you ask?

                                          [–]SheeBang_UniCron 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                          Nothing. Just wondering. Anywho, you mentioned a pet when you were young, what’s it’s name again?

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                                            [–]SinisterYear 18 points19 points  (12 children)

                                            Once this is all over i want the documentary narrated by Morgan Freeman.

                                            [–]GabbiKatGeorgia 21 points22 points  (9 children)

                                            Once this is over i want the documentary narrated by Morgan Freeman Samuel L. Jackson.

                                            [–]LeicaM6guy 10 points11 points  (4 children)

                                            Gilbert Gottfried.

                                            [–]MyredShadow[🍰] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

                                            Dude we need weird Al for this shit.

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                                                  [–]Jabroni77 33 points34 points  (2 children)

                                                  Dig her up dig her up dig her up

                                                  [–]evilbrent 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                                  Ivana who died by falling down the stairs in a house with an elevator

                                                  [–]StromWashington 101 points102 points  (113 children)

                                                  Ia there a reason he'd bury docs where he can't get back to them easily? Seems like a dumb conspiracy

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                                                    [–]IamaTleilaxuSpy 29 points30 points  (0 children)

                                                    Followed by civil forfeiture of all Trump property, just like we treat poor people.

                                                    [–]BlueShift42 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                    Isn’t there already overwhelming evidence to support searching his properties and storage units?

                                                    [–]Gaunter0dimmn 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                    Unfortunately that alone doesn't constitute PC for a Search...not in the federal system.

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                                                      [–]AngusVanhookHinson 151 points152 points  (8 children)

                                                      But they can't swear to it. They just found two more documents in a fucking storage unit (Somebody fact check me. I read it in passing this morning, I think).

                                                      A bunch of lawyers with a client known for lying, dodging, and obfuscating, and there needs to be a "custodian of records" to "unequivocally swear" those are all of them. I wouldn't swear the morning sun is in the east, if that motherfucker's word was all I had to go on. There aren't enough zeroes on the check.

                                                      [–]whatproblems 35 points36 points  (0 children)

                                                      yeah i think they know they sign anything it’s only going to get worse for them personally.

                                                      [–]kadathsc 36 points37 points  (2 children)

                                                      Then they should stop lying to the court saying they’ve handed everything over and instead say: “ we cannot guarantee we have returned every document.”

                                                      [–]TopJimmy_5150 26 points27 points  (0 children)

                                                      Hence, potentially being found in contempt of the May subpoena, requiring they return ALL the docs.

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                                                        [–]Ozlin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                        But they can't swear to it. They just found two more documents in a fucking storage unit (Somebody fact check me. I read it in passing this morning, I think).

                                                        Fact check: You are correct.

                                                        https://apnews.com/article/politics-donald-trump-virginia-west-palm-beach-0dea15da0365220d340f1f51a00b0a27

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                                                          [–]boones_farmer 65 points66 points  (1 child)

                                                          Of course no one wants to be the legal custodian, and being responsible for saying all the documents are back. Literally all of them know Trump's got more somewhere and no one wants to go to jail for Trump.

                                                          [–]gurnard 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                          Michael Cohen is probably still a bit pissy about going to prison for Trump. He probably won't do it again.

                                                          On the other hand, a bunch of Jan 6 traitors had trifling sentences, a few would be getting out by now, I'm sure one of them would take another go in a cell for the old bastard

                                                          [–]x_cLOUDDEAD_xOhio 20 points21 points  (1 child)

                                                          Nobody's willing to sign their name to attest that all classified materials have been returned? Sounds like they haven't all been returned. Might be time to pay ol' Donny Two Scoops another visit.

                                                          [–]transuranic807 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                          More than likely they can't trust A) his word or B) his memory/knowledge/organization of the matter. Either way they aren't attesting. Neither would I.

                                                          [–]CaptainNoBoat 51 points52 points  (0 children)

                                                          Especially since they reportedly don't have PC to pursue search warrants at his other properties, and Trump's lawyers absolutely refuse to attest to anything.

                                                          The obvious course of action for the DOJ is: "Okay, none of you guys want to put it in writing that your client isn't lying and that you've complied? That's contempt of court."

                                                          It's possible the DOJ has or will obtain evidence against any such attestation as well. Good luck finding someone to sign off on that legal landmine, Trump team.

                                                          [–]Choppergold 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                                                          “If we’re idiots we can’t be contemptuous” - a Trump team filing, soon

                                                          [–]Regarded-FD 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                          r/Walkaway is the new r/the_donald

                                                          [–]TheFatJesus 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                          They probably can't find anyone dumb enough to sign that document. It'd be like signing your own conviction.

                                                          [–]Ontheroadtw 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                          Nobody wants to sign that document because there’s 100% chance there’s still classified documents somewhere.

                                                          [–]hamsterfollyAmerica 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                          Their refusal is also a sign that Trump most likely has more classified materials somewhere else.

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                                                            [–][deleted] 1558 points1559 points  (75 children)

                                                            So I'm guessing the story yesterday about Trump hiring an outside group to do the search and finding 2 documents marked classified was leaked by Trump's team to get out ahead of this news that they're likely to be held in contempt.

                                                            DOJ clearly doesn't believe a word out of Team Trump's mouth and think they still have more documents (and they probably know exactly which ones they are missing yet).

                                                            [–][deleted] 934 points935 points  (57 children)

                                                            Never underestimate the librarians. They know, down to the page, what's missing from the stash that FBI recovered in August.

                                                            If Trump attests he's not in possession of any more documents, that means any page not accounted for is lost, destroyed, or transferred/sold to someone else. That's an Espionage Act charge, regardless of which verb it is.

                                                            I'm assuming they'd rather refuse to attest and be charged with contempt/obstruction.

                                                            [–][deleted] 370 points371 points  (5 children)

                                                            May the Nerds bring down another criminal enterprise.

                                                            [–]ggroverggiraffeOregon 86 points87 points  (2 children)

                                                            The time has come for revenge...

                                                            PS 🎂🥳

                                                            [–]Darwins_yoyo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                            The librarians send their regards

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                                                                [–]peritiSumus 170 points171 points  (3 children)

                                                                This is 100% about the attestation. It's ridiculous that they don't have a corporate rep willing to sign an attestation at this point. Very telling. That means, at the very least, that the people around Trump don't believe him, and know they're being asked to fall on a sword for him. They won't, even after hiring an outside firm to conduct searches on Trumps own property. W.T.F!

                                                                This shit is bonkers. It's hard to keep up with just how ridiculously inept and unqualified Trump is and always was for such a sensitive role.

                                                                [–]anothergaijin 25 points26 points  (0 children)

                                                                It’s not just about getting them back, it’s having them swear there are no physical or digital copies. You can bet your arse they’ve made copies and know they’ve lost control of them, and by signing anything they are in a world of hurt. The only alternative is to say that they’ve lost control of some documents which is an admission of guilt.

                                                                It’s a lose-lose situation right now for Trumps team

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                                                                  [–]imzelda 78 points79 points  (12 children)

                                                                  I am obsessed with the fact that it will be archival librarians who finally bring him down.

                                                                  [–]jaxxxtraw 34 points35 points  (10 children)

                                                                  Archival Librarian sounds like a great starting point for creating the next superhero, if you ask me.

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                                                                    [–]triple6seven 13 points14 points  (4 children)

                                                                    Could you imagine executing a former president? Obviously it will never happen, but wow, what a thought.

                                                                    [–]Cool-Presentation538 36 points37 points  (4 children)

                                                                    Ooooh that's a bingo!

                                                                    [–]calm_chowderIowa 17 points18 points  (2 children)

                                                                    "Is that how you say it? 'That's a bingo'?"

                                                                    "Just bingo."

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                                                                      [–]Knownzero 21 points22 points  (0 children)

                                                                      Librarians are the new IRS for bringing down criminals and I’m here for it.

                                                                      [–]Freddies_Mercury 19 points20 points  (2 children)

                                                                      The DoJ even released a public document that outlines exactly what is missing.

                                                                      Oh, they know.

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                                                                        [–]JediMindTrek 138 points139 points  (8 children)

                                                                        I was wondering why the Trump team just "announced" these searches. Given that the search was by a hired 3rd party, and the fact that these other places were being searched in the first place, after they've said multiple times " Whelp that's all the classified stuff", it looks like they put this information out there for a reason.

                                                                        [–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (3 children)

                                                                        To attempt to control the narrative. News was going to get out anyways, but it's colored a specific way if the news is prefaced with "Trump spokesman said today..."

                                                                        [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                                                                        You mean his base gets to pretend that he did the right thing all along. I wonder what building they'll try to storm this time.

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                                                                          [–]tdl432 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                                                          As usual, Trump's PR team was trying to paint him in a positive light while omitting the key details. They came out and said, No classified documents were found at Trump Tower and Bedminster. Conveniently failing to mention that two classified documents were found in a storage container in a totally unsecured location.

                                                                          [–]bit_pusher 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Many of the boxes were sequentially ordered. Not all of the sequence was returned.

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                                                                            [–]altmaltacc 1344 points1345 points  (25 children)

                                                                            I dont understand how this is even a question. The govt explicitly said "give us everything" and he didnt. There is no room for interpretation, he straight up ignored a federal order. Throw him in a cell and revoke his bail until he complies fully.

                                                                            [–]ChucksnTaylor 999 points1000 points  (10 children)

                                                                            And as I’m sure you know, it’s even way worse than that. It was more like: - give us everything - no - give us everything - here’s a few things - okay, Now give us the rest - no - here’s a subpoena, give us everything - no - seriously, we need you to hand everything over - fine, here’s a few more things - okay, fuck you we’re raiding your home - how dare you! - okay, we found a ton of highly classified stuff, got anything else? - no!

                                                                            And more stuff is found

                                                                            [–]IveChosenANameAgain 422 points423 points  (3 children)

                                                                            okay, fuck you we’re raiding your home

                                                                            This is the only inaccuracy in your list here. It wasn't "fuck you". It was "Oh, Sowwy mister pwesident, we have to come into your house now to remove the classified intelligence you stole. We won't say anything about it, or do anything with the documents after, so just don't say anything about it, okay?"

                                                                            Then he opened his dipshit mouth and here we are.

                                                                            [–]globaloffender 65 points66 points  (0 children)

                                                                            Yes!

                                                                            [–]agentfelix 29 points30 points  (1 child)

                                                                            It's funny (not really) how he tries to steer the narrative with denial but yet tries to subtly say "Oops, it was by accident" but yet someone who forgets to scan something at a Walmart self checkout line but someone legit misses something but yet they're charged with shoplifting. Like ignorance of a law or process totally exonerates you of any wrong doing

                                                                            [–]shoot998 30 points31 points  (0 children)

                                                                            Replace that first no after they gave stuff with "nah that was totally everything" because when they finally did comply they repeatedly claimed that they didn't have anything else

                                                                            [–]thiswaynotthatway 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                                                                            You missed the part where after returning some of the documents he claimed in writing, through his lawyer that he'd returned everything. Sauce

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                                                                              [–]whomad1215 92 points93 points  (1 child)

                                                                              It took 6 years to get his taxes when the law is basically just "if asked, the tax man will give the statements to congress"

                                                                              [–]theresabeeonyourhatIllinois 52 points53 points  (5 children)

                                                                              This is kind of off topic, but a makeup person who saw him before he applied everything said if he ever ends up in jail, his own people are gonna be shocked at how haggard he looks

                                                                              [–]throwmamadownthewell 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                              We'll know he's anywhere close to being arrested because he'll disappear for a week then turn up in Russia.

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                                                                                [–]mikerichh 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                                                                                BUT BUT BUT HE DECLASSIFIED IT /s

                                                                                [–]HumboldtChewbacca 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                                                                I forgot about this argument and God damn, no matter what this guy does if he faces any repercussions his sycophants will never accept it

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                                                                                  [–]AccomplishedAd7615 155 points156 points  (8 children)

                                                                                  Why can’t they specifically ask Trump to attest that all docs have been returned and if not, specifically charge Trump with contempt?

                                                                                  [–]MazzIsNoMore 87 points88 points  (3 children)

                                                                                  I wish that just once Trump has to go under oath in a criminal trial. The best we got were written questions from Mueller that was answered with the most soft responses the lawyers could muster.

                                                                                  [–]Exodys03 19 points20 points  (1 child)

                                                                                  Really good question. I think the answer is that he has an army of lawyers working as human shields to protect him from having to testify directly. It shouldn’t be that way.

                                                                                  If your lawyers file false information (like all of the documents have been returned), you should be liable for that. I don’t get to blame my tax preparer if the documents prepared on my behalf are fraudulent.

                                                                                  [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                                  You could sue your tax accountant, but you would have a very hard case defending yourself until you can prove they falsified the documents against your wishes.

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                                                                                    [–]Kingfisher83Maryland 513 points514 points  (14 children)

                                                                                    Do it already, the rest of us wish to rid ourselves of this albatross. Way too many chances given, accept and deal with the fanatics .

                                                                                    [–]Apostate1123California 211 points212 points  (8 children)

                                                                                    Right? They literally had planned a literal insurrection for weeks/months and it amounted to a bunch of idiots roaming through the halls of Congress smearing shit on the wall and a guy in a bison hat just making random noises. Stop thinking arresting Trump will lead to some mass violent event. These peoples brains are like 88% mayonnaise at this point. Stop holding the rest of the country hostage over this made up fear

                                                                                    [–]imzelda 28 points29 points  (0 children)

                                                                                    I was cracking up at your comment, but then I looked around and remembered I’m in Texas. The fear stays locked and loaded.

                                                                                    [–]Cobe98[🍰] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                                                                                    It wasn't just dipshits smearing shit on walls.

                                                                                    Some of those terrorists were in para-military gear with camo, handcuffs and weapons. They were prepared to take elected officials including the VP and House Speaker as hostages.

                                                                                    This could have been way worse. We need to keep remembering that.

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                                                                                      [–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (2 children)

                                                                                      Trump is going to die before any of this ever finishes and the country is never going to recover from the lack of justice.

                                                                                      [–]Temporary_Kangaroo_3 43 points44 points  (1 child)

                                                                                      I hate to say it, the fucking guy was right all along.

                                                                                      When your rich, they let you do it

                                                                                      I get it now. The entire country IS the pussy!!!

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                                                                                        [–]sugarlessdeathbear 305 points306 points  (18 children)

                                                                                        For hiding classified documents and then lying repeatedly to the courts about it?

                                                                                        [–]CassandraAnderson 125 points126 points  (16 children)

                                                                                        It was "Repeated refusal to designate a custodian of records to sign a document attesting that all classified materials have been returned to the federal government" according to the article.

                                                                                        [–]armcie 160 points161 points  (8 children)

                                                                                        "My client has totally returned all classified material."

                                                                                        " Then sign this document saying they're all returned. "

                                                                                        "No."

                                                                                        [–]cannabisized 35 points36 points  (5 children)

                                                                                        "My client has totally returned all classified material."

                                                                                        " Then sign this document saying they're all returned. "

                                                                                        "I will get someone right on that..." "No." FTFY

                                                                                        [–]chownrootroot 16 points17 points  (3 children)

                                                                                        “I’ll sign a document that says I will sign a document” after I’m dead

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                                                                                            [–]UWCGIllinois 37 points38 points  (2 children)

                                                                                            If you or I were to do this, or be found in possession of classified documents, illegally taken, we'd be locked up, probably in solitary, till the trial came (if we even got a trial).

                                                                                            Truly astonishing (and disturbing) what Donald and his team gets away with.

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                                                                                              [–]TintedApostle 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                                                                                              https://www.salon.com/2022/09/12/better-bedminster-video-shows-boarding-plane-with-boxes-after-feds-asked-for-docs/

                                                                                              [–]udar55 57 points58 points  (1 child)

                                                                                              This is why yesterday Trump had Haberman and company saying their team discovered more docs.

                                                                                              [–]dwors025Minnesota 122 points123 points  (6 children)

                                                                                              Get absolutely fucked, Trumpworld.

                                                                                              [–]sedatedlifeWashington 70 points71 points  (4 children)

                                                                                              So this means either Trunps lawyers do not trust him and unwilling to put there head on the chopping block either he is lying to them or they know he has more papers.

                                                                                              [–]tippiedogTexas 68 points69 points  (0 children)

                                                                                              It's in the article:

                                                                                              Some of Trump’s lawyers are also wary of making any claim under oath based on Trump’s word alone, two people familiar with the matter said.

                                                                                              [–]0_o 47 points48 points  (0 children)

                                                                                              in what world should any lawyer ever claim criminal liability for their client like this? Trump is the monster, make him sign the damn paper. What are they gonna attest? that they swear to their knowledge? that trump shared intimate details of top secret documents and that they personally know he is being honest? An attestation from the lawyer isn't worth shit. Either Trump, personally, guarantees every document sent missing has been returned or he, personally, should be in fucking jail. Or arrest them all for conspiracy. Pick a lane.

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                                                                                                [–]washingtonpost✔ Washington Post[S] 114 points115 points  (20 children)

                                                                                                From reporters Spencer S. Hsu, Josh Dawsey, Jacqueline Alemany, Devlin Barrett and Rosalind S. Helderman:

                                                                                                Prosecutors have urged a federal judge to hold Donald Trump’s office in contempt of court for failing to fully comply with a May subpoena to return all classified documents in his possession, according to people familiar with the matter — a sign of how contentious the private talks have become over whether the former president still holds any secret papers.

                                                                                                In recent days, Justice Department lawyers have asked U.S. District Court Judge Beryl A. Howell to hold Trump’s office in contempt, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sealed court proceedings. But the judge has not yet held a hearing or ruled on the request, they said.

                                                                                                The request came after months of mounting frustration from the Justice Department with Trump’s team — frustration that spiked in June after the former president’s lawyers provided assurances that a diligent search had been conducted for classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago Club and residence. But the FBI amassed evidence suggesting — and later confirmed through a court-authorized search — that many more remained.

                                                                                                One of the key areas of disagreement centers on the Trump legal team’s repeated refusal to designate a custodian of records to sign a document attesting that all classified materials have been returned to the federal government, according to two of these people. The Justice Department has repeatedly sought an unequivocal sworn written assurance from Trump’s team that all such documents have been returned, and Trump’s team has been unwilling to designate a custodian of records to sign such a statement while also giving assurances that they have handed documents back.

                                                                                                The precise wording of the filing could not be determined because it remains under seal. Trump is under investigation for three potential crimes: mishandling classified documents, obstruction, and destruction of government records.

                                                                                                Trump spokesman Steven Cheung said the former president’s lawyers “continue to cooperative and transparent.” He added: “This is a political witch hunt unlike anything like this country has ever seen.” He did not answer specific questions for the story.

                                                                                                Read more, free with email registration: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/08/trump-contempt-mar-a-lago-records/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com

                                                                                                [–]TahoeDave 55 points56 points  (1 child)

                                                                                                When you're a Witch, a witch hunt is appropriate.

                                                                                                [–]Marathon2021 45 points46 points  (7 children)

                                                                                                Trump is under investigation for three potential crimes: mishandling classified documents, obstruction, and destruction of government records.

                                                                                                Is it me, or does that last part seem rather new? I thought he was up on charges of violating the espionage act, and obstruction of justice. I had not heard the destruction charge brought into things until now.

                                                                                                [–]Dje4321 24 points25 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                They probably tacked that on when they found they empty folders. If you cant produce the documents, then as far as anyo e is concerned, they are lost/destroyed.

                                                                                                Mishandling of documents is going to be a much tamer thing to prove as its basically not storing the documents in an authorized way.

                                                                                                [–]Saxamaphooone 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                                                                                                Same. Either I just completely missed that being mentioned in every story I’ve read about the charges, or this is new.

                                                                                                [–]MZ603America 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                I think it might fall under mishandling. Perhaps this wording is intentional.

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                                                                                                    [–]LoquatLazy 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                    Glad he kept up on the rent, wouldn’t want our nations secret nuclear codes to end up on storage wars.

                                                                                                    [–]NumeralJoker 61 points62 points  (9 children)

                                                                                                    Is this the beginning of an actual consequence?

                                                                                                    [–]nychumanNew York 81 points82 points  (6 children)

                                                                                                    No because they’ll just appeal this too, ad infinitum. They will drag this out until after the 2024 elections. They’re banking on successfully winning/rigging those for none of this to matter because pardon power.

                                                                                                    [–]MazzIsNoMore 55 points56 points  (3 children)

                                                                                                    Also, any punishment from this contempt of court will likely be a fine. Once again allowing the rich to ignore laws by buying their way out of it

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                                                                                                        [–]Tonychaudhry I voted 203 points204 points  (16 children)

                                                                                                        If I had done 1/100th of what trump did, I’d be in jail for life. Justice is an illusion.

                                                                                                        [–]Potential_Dare8034 64 points65 points  (2 children)

                                                                                                        “You go down looking for justice, that's what you'll find. Just us.”

                                                                                                        ~Richard Pryor~

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                                                                                                          [–]edmccoyii 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                          “Theres money in the banana stand…”

                                                                                                          [–]NateGrey 30 points31 points  (1 child)

                                                                                                          Lock. Him. Up.

                                                                                                          [–]edwarticaOregon 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                          Take the key and lock him up, my fair lady.

                                                                                                          [–]E_PunnyMous 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                          Trump has dug himself a hole so Trumpy there is no legal term of art to describe his position. He’s not representing himself yet no current or outside legal representative will back up his assertions because (gasp) their duty as officers of the court is being enforced.

                                                                                                          I have been wearing a shit eating grin all evening. My schadenfreude runneth over and I can’t wait for tomorrow’s legal podcasts.

                                                                                                          [–]Mostest_Importantest 22 points23 points  (5 children)

                                                                                                          Crazy to me that either none of our structured systems of government's "National Security" and "State Secrets" being threatened and exploited actually merits some kind of "crisis-emergency-holy-shit-we-gotta-cap-this-NOW" response, instead of this 6 year drama House of Cards meets season 8 of Game of Thrones nonsense.

                                                                                                          Like...we definitely are showing our global, societal, governance skills and competence to be completely devoid of substance.

                                                                                                          Is this whole thing only able to move forward to be measured in years?

                                                                                                          We'd be destroyed in minutes if someone or some group had competent adversaries and enemies to the USA.

                                                                                                          As it is, the world just watches us with some kind of disgusted horror as we elect our worst and then fight over why their side is less ugly in the Almost Ugliest Contest that our political system makes us all play.

                                                                                                          [–]Ok-Goat-8461 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                          Some of the world watches with disgusted horror. The leadership of the USA's strategic rivals probably watch with pleased surprise. The last 6 years have made it very clear that the throne of global leadership is empty, while the American state collectively eats paste and plays Russian roulette.

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                                                                                                            [–]terflit 22 points23 points  (1 child)

                                                                                                            Plus they just recently found more classified documents in storage along with swords and wrestling belts...

                                                                                                            [–]Nerney9 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                            Summary if can't read the article:

                                                                                                            Team Trump: "We gave back all the nuclear secrets, pinky swear. This is a witch hunt!"
                                                                                                            America: "So put it in writing under oath."
                                                                                                            Team Trump: "What, and face consequences if we're lying? Ha, no way, it's not THAT kind of promise. Also this is a witch hunt!"

                                                                                                            [–]livefastdie22 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                            Lock him up

                                                                                                            [–]rittenalready 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                                                                                                            I think the department of records knows exactly what is missing/ but it is classified and they can’t release that information to the public. They know trump is keeping documents they know which documents and he knows they know this. That is what is so weird about this case

                                                                                                            [–]Sister_Snark 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                                                                                            They know trump is keeping documents they know which documents and he knows they know this. That is what is so weird about this case

                                                                                                            Suppose you’re Trump and you’ve been selling classified documents/information to the highest foreign bidder for the last 2 years. Information like, say, Iran’s missile defense system or the design specifications of Israel’s Iron Dome and Iron Beam. Information like the identity and location of Confidential Informants. Then the DOD and FBI says hand that information back and you suddenly realize that all the emergency exits have been sealed off and that’s gonna be a real problem. A stalemate is the best you could hope for but there’s not gonna be one because unbeknownst to you, a guy whose name might rhyme with Shmared Smushner has flipped on you to save his own skin and avoid a Grand Jury indictment.

                                                                                                            [–]bildo72New York 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                            Only the best lawyers a parking lot can buy.

                                                                                                            By the by, pretty sure Aileen Cannon is on that team.

                                                                                                            [–]jane-stclaire 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                            As someone who studied the Nixon files intensely as an eighth-grade Canadian in the 1990’s, it’s been incredible, yet frightening, to watch presidential corruption of this magnitude unravel before my very eyes.

                                                                                                            EDIT: a letter

                                                                                                            [–]Hot-Celebration-626 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                                                                                                            It is absolutely absurd how much law breaking has surrounded this man and yet he is still untouchable.

                                                                                                            If I stole a stick of gum from a gas station, I would be in handcuffs.

                                                                                                            How much crime must he commit before the public gets to see him even arrested for something.

                                                                                                            [–]Mostestdef 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                                                            Not even sure he’s hiding them, dude probably doesn’t even know what he has laying around - which is even more worrisome. He can’t sign off on turning over everything bc he didn’t keep track of these documents to begin with.

                                                                                                            [–]SquarebobSpongepants Canada 6 points7 points  (5 children)

                                                                                                            Could you imagine if Biden or Obama did this. The Republicans wouldn’t stop stroking their raging ego. Instead they’re like “so what”. Jeez, all these preachers of law and order are kind of….what’s the phrase, oh yes, full of shit.

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