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[–]lrlOurPresident[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (13 children)

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[–]finalgarlicdis 924 points925 points 423& 5 more (666 children)

For those who are new to this conversation, and claim that cancelling the debt doesn't solve the fundamental problem: Everyone advocating for student debt cancellation is also a supporter of making colleges and trade school tuition-free, and sees cancellation as an intentional strategy to accomplish that.

The reason there is this present focus on Biden using his executive order to cancel student debt is because (1) he has that power to do so right now, (2) nobody expects congress to pass legislation to cancel it over the next four years, and (3) because cancelling all of that debt would force congress to enact tuition-free legislation or be doomed to allow the debt to be cancelled every time a Democratic president takes office (since a precedent will have been set).

Meaning, to avoid the need for endless future cancellation (an unsustainable situation for our economy) the onus would be forced onto congress (against their will) to pass some kind of tuition-free legislation whether they like it or not.

As a side note, because the federal government will be the primary customer for higher education, that means they also have a ton of leverage to negotiate tuition rates down so that schools aren't simply overcharging the government instead of students.

[–]AnxiousLeisureSuit 243 points244 points  (168 children)

Hadn’t seen this spelled out. Thank you

Edit: i also appreciate the context people are adding, including that this text appears pasted in other places. Still not sure why y’all are so upset tho

[–]SPOOFE 70 points71 points  (65 children)

Yeah, same here. I always struggled with picturing a clear endgame for student debt cancellation by Executive Action but damn, reading that post felt like some pieces clicked into place.

[–]bruce_kwillis 10 points11 points  (62 children)

The problem though is that it’s a false argument. It doesn’t ‘force’ Congress to do anything. The next republican president isn’t going to cancel student debt.

Additionally the federal government isn’t covering the majority of school funding, states are, so they will just give the government a middle finger and keep raising rates.

If you want fix student debt, fund two year colleges for free in all states instead of 17 as is the current way, and set interest rates on federal student loans to zero for X amount of years.

This only kicks the can down the road. Until corporations decide to move back to training people and not relying on secondary education to do so, the problem will persist.

[–]SPOOFE 22 points23 points  (9 children)

The next republican president isn’t going to cancel student debt.

I think you misread the comment.

[–]cburke82 10 points11 points  (34 children)

If you agree that trades and community college should be free then would you agree that students with debt from trade and community college should have their debt canceled?

[–]Quirky-Skin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Seriously zero interest would be enough at this point. Dollar for dollar encourages repayment and doesn't penalize people for decades after the fact. I'd be way done by now without interest. As it stands I've moved my principle so little these past 10yrs it's laughable. 6 more and I'm done tho thankfully

[–]niles_crane_phd_md 27 points28 points  (90 children)

It's also important to emphasize the economic benefits. Millions of people will now use the money on the economy, including purchasing homes, or have more to save, right as we exit a pandemic. It'd be a home run in a lot of fronts.

[–]LuckyRefrigerator519 9 points10 points  (65 children)

So would paying off everybody's home mortgages. Wipe the entire slate clean, and you'll see some of the best economic growth in history as there will no longer be leverage in any part of the economy. Win win.

[–]KanyinTV 9 points10 points  (13 children)

So housing prices will moonshot even further. Great idea.

[–]Icy_Rhubarb2857 9 points10 points  (12 children)

Fun fact, housing prices are skyrocketing globally because the ultra wealthy have almost doubled their wealth during the pandemic and they need places to park that wealth.

By driving up prices and buying everything up they are literally trying to make it so average folk can no longer own property

The problem is that rich people have too much money.

[–]Stalker80085 40 points41 points  (72 children)

Cancelling debt by EO without a chance of changing fundamental issue doesn't solve the problem and could make things worse since

1) it encourage both dangerous lending and accruing of debt with expectation of more cancellation

2) further empowers future presidents to abuse EO to take unilateral action in defiance of Congress. Remember, the next trump isn't that far away. Maybe 4, maybe 8 years. 20 years if we're lucky but he's coming.

Solve college tuition pricing and predatory loans first. Do it via legislation so it sticks.

[–]frozenmona68 14 points15 points  (14 children)

You are absolutely correct. Without fixing the problem, it'll just come back. Allowing any president to just sign something at his will, is not how a country is run.

[–]gr8bhere 14 points15 points  (26 children)

100%. We do this EO, just imagine what the next trump does with EOs. It’s crazy that both sides just want to side step all legislation and point fingers at each other. Let’s just re-enact kings at this point.

[–]noNoParts 12 points13 points  (17 children)

Fucking hilarious that you think the next trump would have any shred of introspection that gives pause because "Biden didn't do it."

[–]Nalivai 6 points7 points  (9 children)

There is a lot of suddenly important small groups, committees, and other, mostly non-partisan groups of people who have very specific powers in government, which are designed to be checks and balances around exploiting "that one weird trick" to gain momentary advantage. Conservatives make a lot of effort to eliminate and depower that groups when they are in full power, so when dems have presidency, they spend a lot of power to restore them (listen to the podcast Cleanup on isle 45 to deep dive in this shit, it's fascinating). As a result, dems can't just exploit all the weird tricks and loopholes willy-nilly, both because of checks and balances they are restoring, and because if they persist, the effort of restoring and maintaining checks and balances will be in vain.
And people who understand shit about government, keep insisting that it's better to maintain this sliver of decorum to prevent Cons into sliding into full dictatorship when they are in power, than to get some advantages now.
Maybe if most of the major government position wouldn't be occupied by hardcore conservatives the picture might be different, but now temporary slight improvement now isn't worth complete and utter unchecked dictatorship several years later.

[–]Critique_of_Ideology 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I believe the ability to eliminate federal student loan debt through executive order is provided by a law that is already on the books. The argument that we should go through Congress seems odd to me because presumably we already went through Congress some time ago and came up with the legislation that we currently have that already allows for loan forgiveness through executive order.

[–]ClathrateRemonte 23 points24 points  (8 children)

Lots of assumptions here.

[–]7776777 24 points25 points  (5 children)

It's also copied and pasted every time this topic comes up. It's legit bots lol

[–]spikedorange 8 points9 points  (1 child)

But my grassroots activism!

[–]mupr 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s called astroturf right?

[–]Lucky-Surround-1756 25 points26 points  (34 children)

Is that the correct way to govern though? The US is still in principle a democracy, a president shouldn't be abusing executive powers to force through legislation if the elected bodies don't want to do so.

[–]Need-4-Sleep 22 points23 points  (0 children)

No it shouldn't. Ideally, the president is supposed to oversee things that a large body like Congress cannot and make decisions that way with a group of knowledgeable advisors. The office of the president has been gaining power through precedents like this forever (Jefferson changing the way VPs are chosen), but it's ramped up drastically in the last 20ish years. At the same time, this isn't an ideal world, and I see the need to spur legislation through action this way. My 2 cents.

[–]PUTINS_PORN_ACCOUNT 15 points16 points  (7 children)

He’s not.

Also, the US has a presidential democracy, as opposed to a parliamentary one. The president has no formal power to dictate legislative activity, but in practical terms, the president’s priorities and plans have huge influence on his party, and the members of it in the legislature.

[–]Thanos_Stomps 3 points4 points  (2 children)

The president seems to be having less and less sway over their party’s legislators and the legislative body as a whole. Even Trump couldn’t control his party the way he wanted to (McCain, Romney, Cheney, McConnell) to name a few.

[–]PUTINS_PORN_ACCOUNT 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don’t see recent sessions as that much different, apart from the unusual level of extremism.

Congresses have told presidents to fuck off plenty throughout American history.

Intra-party fractures haven’t been terribly uncommon, either. For example back when Democrats represented both racist conservative Jim Crow southern constituencies and northern labor unions, each with different and often conflicting ideologies.

[–]BrendanFraser 7 points8 points  (14 children)

Debt jubilees are incredibly common throughout history

[–]wreckmaster21 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Random thing, if you read the declaration of independence and the constitution you'll notice the word democracy strangely absent.

[–]HayPlaceAPlaceforHay 20 points21 points  (84 children)

The canceling of student loan debt every time there is a dem president is not a real concern. Because if it was, the banks would stop giving fed backed student loans.

I want student loan debt canceled as much as anyone, but without figuring out what it means for the next generation of college goers/borrowers, it’s not a solution.

[–]LiberalParadise 67 points68 points  (55 children)

Federal student loans are borrowed directly from the federal government. He can only cancel federal student loan debt in this situation, not student loans borrowed from private institutions.

You literally made up a concern that doesnt exist.

[–]etherreal 9 points10 points  (10 children)

Banks would still get paid, guaranteed.

[–]Lets_Do_This_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And even if they did cancel it every time, all the years they didn't would still be less money spent, as far as they're concerned.

Not at all a coherent argument.

[–]motsanciens 9 points10 points  (1 child)

force Congress to


[–]YeahitsaBMW 7 points8 points  (15 children)

Do you have a compelling argument why taxpayers should bail out middle class white people by forgiving student debt? College graduates have so many advantages over poor, less educated people. College grads will make far more money, enjoy better healthcare outcomes, and many other less tangible benefits. Now not only do you want those benefits but you want everyone to chip in to pay for it. Here is a thought, continue doing student loans as is, you borrowed the money as an adult, pay it back as an adult. Take the money that would be going to middle class white people via debt forgiveness and use it for scholarships for high performing, low income people. This would break the poverty cycle and lift people up that never had a chance before and the people it hurts the most would be those that have the most privilege to begin with. To say school will be free for everyone from here on is not correct, the cost would be borne by everyone whether they go to school or not but only those that could go to school would benefit. You are looking for one of the biggest government hand outs ever and he majority of the recipients will be white people that knowingly took on a debt and now have extreme buyers remorse. I know my audience and I expect the downvotes but why not try and put forth an argument instead of downvoting and proceeding to the next debt cancellation circle jerk?

[–]Arzalis 9 points10 points  (6 children)


Student loan forgiveness via EO benefits lower income minorities more than any other group.

Sorry, this tired, cherry-picked argument was finally proven wrong. Wealthy people don't take out student loans. Most studies include private loans which aren't on the table to be forgiven. Turns out this plan would be targeted in a way that does primarily benefit the lower end of the wealth spectrum.

[–]IAMARedPanda 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You know they don't. If you believe aid should be needs based you would never advocate for college loan forgiveness.

[–]loose--cannon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I have the solution
Biden can call J.G. WENTWORTH

[–]schmidlidev 5 points6 points  (19 children)

Does “cancel” mean the government immediately pays back the loans on behalf of the student, or does it literally mean cancelled (banks just lose all the money loaned). Is the 2nd option actually legal?

[–]mokango 24 points25 points  (18 children)

They zero the balance for student loans from the government.

It only affects federal loans, not ones from private banks.

[–]schmidlidev 12 points13 points  (13 children)

Ah gotcha, thank you.

Wouldn’t the government also need to stop giving out federal student loans at the same time?

[–]mokango 6 points7 points  (12 children)

Yes, that’s mentioned in the top comment.

Forgiving the loans is a first step in a move towards eliminating tuition entirely for public universities and colleges. If there’s no tuition, there’s no need for loans.

[–]schmidlidev 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I’m not very confident that point 3 would really play out it that way. It asserts congress will be forced to make tuition free to prevent unsustainable loan forgiveness, but what prevents congress from either limiting the presidents ability to forgive those loans, or even terminating the entire federal student loan program instead?

[–]blewpah 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Forgiving the loans is a first step in a move towards eliminating tuition entirely for public universities and colleges. If there’s no tuition, there’s no need for loans.

Assuming that everything plays out exactly the way this strategy expects it to, and likely with significant unforeseen consequences if things don't play out that way.

[–]ConnorSuttree 2 points3 points  (3 children)

A good next step however would be to change bankruptcy laws so that student loans can be discharged. Banks lend money like crazy, with no due diligence on their part, to students because they know they'll be repaid by hook or by crook since there is no escape except under some very rare circumstances.

[–]Snoo_99759 4 points5 points  (21 children)

Not to mention his approval rating would soar tremendously. What a relief for so many hundreds of millions of people that would bring.

[–]pazimpanet 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Amongst people who don’t vote*

[–]patrickoriley 3 points4 points  (6 children)

People with student debt don't vote?

[–]pazimpanet 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Statistically, no. Younger people vote in much smaller amounts than older people and who do you think is most likely to have student debt?

And on top of that, how many of them voted this time:

1) just for the promise of student loan debt forgiveness 2) just to get rid of Trump

And won’t be back in the polls in 2022 and 2024 if They no longer have that debt to get rid of and Trump doesn’t run?

[–]patrickoriley 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Define younger people. Student debt is common late into people's 40s. I also think hundreds of thousand of dollars might be something of a motivator.

1) Nobody is promising student loan forgiveness, that's why nobody voted for it. (It will also never happen because Biden is not a progressive president).

2) Trump will run again.

You don't need to convince anyone here that a good idea is a bad idea because it's irrelevant and will never happen.

[–]AdministrativeBit510 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Most likely if he issues such an executive order he will be sued immediately and the EO tied up in the court system for the rest of his presidency. It’s not as cut and dry as people make it out to be that he can unilaterally forgive student debt.

[–]blewpah 5 points6 points  (4 children)

he has that power to do so right now,

...Does he? He could try but it would definitely be litigated and I'm not confident the current SC would agree that this is within his power.

[–]clownfeat 5 points6 points  (11 children)

As someone with both federal and private student loan debt, I don't want the government to cancel anything.

I'm an adult. I was an adult when I took on that debt. It's not under the government's jurisdiction to cancel my loan, it's MINE. Putting down the mob of student loan debt would force a mob of economic turmoil to rise.

Money is still a real thing, people keep track of the books. The government cannot just "cancel" debt. The amount of money that the debt is worth has already been spent, so good luck tracking down who really holds that negative balance. The bank is the only entity that would get fucked.

And why should they? No matter how you feel about large, bloodsucking financial institutions, they play by the rules of the game. They gave a loan to someone who agreed to pay it back. They deserve the money returned to them. If "the government pays it back", that's just socialized education, which I'm not necessarily not in favour of, but it will obviously lower how valuable secondary education is. (If everyone is the same, nobody is special, negating it's value).

[–]Out_Worlder 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Agreed no one put a gun to my head and made me take the loans. I read the documents I saw the figures and I'm confident I'll be able to get a good job and pay of my debt.

[–]Bulky_Lifeguard_1968 4 points5 points  (1 child)

For your last point, "if everyone is the same, nobody is special", that just means your workforce is more highly educated because of free secondary education.

Looking at European countries where they have this, a more educated workforce would have better ROI to the government where the standards of living also goes up. It just means those who went through secondary education won't have that paper to distinguish themselves from others (ie. Those who are rich or those who borrow money) but would need to display that skillset as the differentiating factor. Eliminating this factor is a good thing.

I am not for cancelling the debt though because it's such a arbitrary thing to do. I would expect more of a phased in approach with tax credits or slow reduction over time where you still have to pay but the government provides assistance as well if we're trying to reach free education as the end goal.

[–]awfuldaring 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thank you (and others) for posting this!! It's helpful for the newbies (and those of us who have been here but don't want to explain)!

[–]RiskyFartOftenShart 3 points4 points  (0 children)

so whats the plan for privately owned tuition debt? Also, I have watch congress punt on things like passing a budget over and over again. It wouldn't force anyone's hand.

[–]S7EFEN 6 points7 points  (16 children)

student loan debt cancelation is bailing out people who on average do not need it.

middle and high income earners make up most of the loan debt.

[–]JadeGrapes 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Whats the plan to reduce the costs to provide the college education?

So many schools charge crazy prices compared to back in the 60s / 70s... even when accounting for inflation.

Like if tax payers are going to pay for it, how do we keep the institutions from abusing the price/costs to the Gov?

[–]canadianmooserancher 181 points182 points  (185 children)

If he does it he guarantees himself a second term.

Why are these guys so stupid?

[–]coldhippo 180 points181 points  (13 children)

Too many of their friends would lose money raping people in the loan service industry.

[–]ActorTomSpanks 51 points52 points  (4 children)


[–]BakedAndSauteed 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Friends > Country

That's politics for ya.

[–]yizzlezwinkle 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Odd comment considering the only loans he could feasibly cancel are government backed. Who would lose money here?

[–]Lazy_Importance9700 58 points59 points  (8 children)

Only the elites/corporations get bailouts - everyone else gets bootstraps to pull.

[–]Hallc 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Wait they're giving out the bootstraps now? I thought you had to be born into having those bootstraps to pull on?

[–]Zeabos 28 points29 points  (59 children)

I think that’s pretty far from true. If he does this it’s probably political suicide? No one center or right of center will vote for him if he does.

[–]polarbearskill 26 points27 points  (36 children)

Yeah if he did this he would in my opinion almost certainly lose the next election.

[–]Kerblaaahhh 13 points14 points  (31 children)

Seriously, only like 15% of Americans have any student loan debt at all. The president effectively unilaterally spending over a trillion dollars to cancel the debts of those people, many of whom (myself included) really don't need help at all to pay down that debt would be insane. I'm pretty damn lefty but anyone who thinks this is a good idea is seriously out of touch.

[–]gronk696969 12 points13 points  (10 children)

anyone who thinks this is a good idea is seriously out of touch.

So, Reddit. People I know in real life don't think like the majority of Reddit. Thankfully.

Insane to me that people will voluntarily take out a loan and then act like the only right thing to do is for the lender to cancel it. Of course I'd like my debt cancelled too, bit at least I can admit it's purely for selfish reasons, not like it's owed to me.

[–]skillao 2 points3 points  (4 children)

This right here. I'd consider myself pretty progressive and liberal minded, but I'm also in college myself right now. I know plenty of people shamelessly taking out thousands for a nice dorm simply because they feel entitled to their "college experience". I don't think they should have their loans forgiven at all.

[–]gronk696969 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Exactly. So many students give no thought to the feasibility of paying back the loan. That's a problem for another day. They just pick the college they want, regardless of cost, and spend like it's Monopoly money. And then want taxpayers to foot the bill.

As I said, who wouldn't want their debt forgiven. That's only natural. But call it what it is: selfishness. Don't blame everyone else for your debt and come up with all these BS reasons that debt should go away.

[–]QuitArguingWithMe 9 points10 points  (10 children)

It's controversial among pretty much everyone outside of subs like this.

And even here there seems to be a decent amount of disagreement.

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 19 points20 points  (16 children)

If he does it he guarantees himself a second term.

Explain how please. The overwhelming majority of people that attend higher education already vote for the left. Also, the demographics would skew under 40 or so, also a group already in the bag for the left.

[–]ParkSidePat 16 points17 points  (11 children)

Also it pisses off the approximately 88% of people who will get nothing but higher national debt out of this. It's pretty much the single stupidest idea in politics.

[–]Harmacc 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Because nothing will fundamentally change.

[–]toadjones79 7 points8 points  (8 children)

That's not really true. People usually vote against something, not for it. So, he would make millions of happy liberals who contently sit at home the next election, and fire up millions of conservatives who get out to vote against him for doing something they believe to be "communist." The timing of cancelling student debt is extremely perilous surrounding elections outcomes. I think he will do so shortly before the midterms as fodder for liberal advertisements.

[–]PrimeministerLOL 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Because he knows the ROI of canceling student debt is no where near the ROI of a version of his infrastructure bill and after 4 years of Donny T steadily increasing the national debt, you have to be careful with how you decide to stimulate the economy via more debt

[–]YourSturgeonGeneral[🍰] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The fact that 5200 people on Reddit care about something isn’t a sign that it has traction IRL.

Proof: Bernie Sanders isn’t President. Nor is Ron Paul (remember that weirdness?)

[–]Auctoritate 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Maybe you should connect the dots and realize that if he's not doing the thing that'll give him an instant guaranteed presidency, there's probably a good reason he isn't. In this case it's that executive order doesn't have the legal jurisdiction to cancel student debt.

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Maybe you should connect the dots and realize that if he's not doing the thing that'll give him an instant guaranteed presidency, there's probably a good reason he isn't.

You mean that just because a bunch of children on reddit think it would win the election doesn't mean anything?

[–]lemonlimecake 3 points4 points  (1 child)

lol do you think the swing voters in the burbs in the few states that matter anymore will vote D because of this?

Literally the people that advocate for student debt elimination are solid D voters that likely will never vote R regardless of what Biden does or doesn’t do

[–]edcantu9 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Being president does not pay much compared to the corporate "donations/deals"

[–]DrWaxu 151 points152 points  (65 children)

If Biden forgives student loan debt by executive order, Democrats will win the white house in 2024 and have a good chance of gaining a number of seats in 2022.

Not to mention, Republicans have student loan debt too. I know a few Trump supporters alone who would vote for Biden in 2024 if he forgave student loan debt, even if Trump was on the ballot. This is a huge opportunity. There's no reason not to do it.

[–]The_White_Guar 113 points114 points  (27 children)

I think you underestimate the willingness of conservatives to vote against what is obviously in their best interests

[–]megusta_b055 21 points22 points  (0 children)

And the willingness of Neoliberal democrats to vote for their best interests if it doesn’t also line their own pockets.

[–]DSteep 18 points19 points  (6 children)

Like universal healthcare for example? As a Canadian it boggles my mind why everyone isn't in favour of it.

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 22 points23 points  (2 children)

If Biden forgives student loan debt by executive order, Democrats will win the white house in 2024

Why? Please, use some data and evidence to explain why.

[–]Kangermu 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Because they live in an echo chamber and can't imagine any viewpoints outside their own

[–]big-blue-balls 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because that’s what was said the last time this comment was copy pasta to a thread regarding student debt cancellation..

[–]TwoPaintBubbles 11 points12 points  (19 children)

I think you’re drastically over estimating the turn out for the age of voter this will benefit most while underestimating the impact it will have for those who will need to pay for it, who would normally vote Democrat. Forgiving all student debt would definitely shift the moderate dem vote to the right.

[–]patrickoriley 4 points5 points  (16 children)

This makes no sense, fyi.

"Giving people tens of thousands of dollar will not motivate them to vote! In fact, it will turn them against you!"

[–]TwoPaintBubbles 3 points4 points  (10 children)

One tenth of Bernie’s supports actually turned out to vote for him in the 2020 primary. Voter turnout for adults 18 - 30, people who would benefit the most from student loan forgiveness, is low.

People over that age bracket tend to vote more. These are also the people who would be taxed at a higher rate if we forgave student loans. They also tend to be more moderate. So if we raise their taxes under the Biden administration for policy that they will not personally benefit from, then they will be more inclined to vote moderate republican in the next election cycle.

[–]patrickoriley 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I'm cool with being taxed more if my kids got free college, but maybe I'm an outlier.

[–]Mr-Basically-Clean 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is such a dumb take. Trump supporters/GoP won’t all of sudden be pro Biden. Instead they will say “Biden is ruinin america and inflating the country blah blah blah” they will just spin it into a negative and pound their chest on how they could have paid their loans themselves.

[–]ParkSidePat 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Pissing off 88% of the population to give a massive gift to 12% is a great way to lose elections for a lifetime. Look past your own nose.

[–]krenyx 104 points105 points  (202 children)

Biden not addressing student debt makes me lose confidence in him. It appears he's not even trying or looking into it. It looks like he doesn't even care. As someone who's deeply affected and drowning in student loans, it's clear; Biden doesn't care about me. So why should i vote for him next time?

Edit: I'm turning off notifications for this comment. And if this student debt issue is not an actual problem for you or you don't have any solutions to it other than just "deal with it", then I don't really care about your opinion on it.

[–]Prof_Acorn 58 points59 points  (11 children)

It doesn't make me lose confidence in him, because I had no confidence in him to begin with. He is the one that make student loans uniquely immune from bankruptcy protections in the first place.

He represents the manufactured opposition that neoliberal interests manifest to stall movement to the left.

[–]Monkey_Legend 22 points23 points  (2 children)

He won't even tell the DOJ to reschedule marijuana either, they want to lose because the dems fundraise and have an easier time when they are in opposition, having to actually implement an agenda is hard when your donors and your constituents having conflicting policy interests.

[–]codename_hardhat 10 points11 points  (2 children)

If any of those loans you’re drowning in are federal then his administration is already helping you by pausing payments and interest until October, which has helped me quite a bit. If you’re disabled or have been defrauded by for-profit schools then those debt forgiveness programs have been reinstated, as well.

This is far from solving the problem, of course, but to say they’re neither trying nor looking into it simply isn’t true.

[–]rwmphoto 9 points10 points  (4 children)

My guess is he will do something towards the end of his first term in order to secure younger votes. Maybe 10k loan forgiveness on all federal loans.

But then again I have nothing backing up this claim and I'm talking out of my ass so who really knows.

[–]ThatNustaBusta 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've got a couple of bets going with my friends that they'll legalize weed federally near the end of his first term.

[–]1sagas1 7 points8 points  (3 children)

He probably looked into it and saw the majority of student debt holders are upper and upper-middle class people with above average incomes so it would be incredibly regressive to forgive it

[–]IAMARedPanda 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Reddit is a bunch of privileged white kids who would benefit from loan forgiveness. There is a reason it reaches a fever pitch while never being seriously discussed by the rest of society.

[–]K1NGMOJO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is exactly it. The majority of those with crippling student loans debt are middle class students who did not qualify for Pell Grants or other need based aid because their parents made too much money.

[–]DarkEvilHedgehog 7 points8 points  (22 children)

Did Biden ever say he was going to do it? It's kinda framed like he's obligated to do it, but AFAIK his election platform didn't cover it at all.

[–]PowerKrazy 13 points14 points  (18 children)

"Biden made campaign promises to cancel $10,000 in student debt per person and forgive debt for students from HBCUs and public colleges."

He has done neither.

[–]loose--cannon 4 points5 points  (50 children)

I never went to college. What your saying is Biden should take money from me and give it to you? If you get bailed out then I want a big fat check also.

[–]WookieMonster6 56 points57 points  (74 children)

As someone who is very lucky and has paid off my student loans. I'm STILL for this idea.

Jerks who don't want this because it won't directly benefit them are the worst.

[–]bopitextreme 17 points18 points  (19 children)

Why should student debt be paid off as opposed to other forms of debt such as mortgages or car payments?

College graduates make an average of $1 million more over their lives than non college graduates. Would the money not be better spent as a one-time payment to those under a certain income level?

Additionally, there are important ramifications to consider doing this via Executive Order.

[–]Asado-y-Fernet 16 points17 points  (15 children)

Why should student debt be paid off as opposed to other forms of debt such as mortgages or car payments?

The federal government doesn't give you loans for mortgages or car payments.

The reason the fed gives out student loans at all is the same reason that student loans would be canceled: people being able to afford higher education is in the interests of the state.

[–]Norzeforce 6 points7 points  (11 children)

First off, my federally backed VA mortgage would enjoy being paid off.

Second, forgiving student debt does nothing to make higher education more affordable. It would allow more money to be put it into the economy, but then we are back to forgiving any debt would do that.

[–]Yarope 6 points7 points  (38 children)

I think you guys should try wearing the shoes we're in.

Why would we want to make you more competitive when nothing is changing for us? It's hard enough to get jobs as it is, let me keep my one advantage which was avoiding loans/debt.

[–]sinsquaretriangle 8 points9 points  (14 children)

Seriously why should those that didn't go to college foot the bill for those that did willingly. NO.

[–]KosmicJaguar 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Exactly. What a bunch of entitled twats. You took out the loans so deal with it.

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Neat for you. Pick someone you know and cut them a check.

[–]pasososoenendisi 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He doesn’t mean HIMSELF having to pay anything, he means confiscating that money from whi- er, PRIVILEGED NADZEES

[–]the_lil_dstryr 43 points44 points  (17 children)

Why isn’t there a cancel student debt March on Washington?

[–]ImWrongYoureRight 32 points33 points  (7 children)

Most of em have jobs

[–]Cazumarzu 28 points29 points  (4 children)

Maybe even 3 jobs.

[–]ImWrongYoureRight 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I'm sure you're gonna say I'm in the minority but all the people I know that took a student loan paid it off by themselves or are paying it off with no financial hardships. Sure some people need it, but more people need a UBI, and that benefits everyone.

[–]Coolasslife 4 points5 points  (0 children)

you are by far in the majority

[–]OnDateWithCat 35 points36 points  (18 children)

Or at least do it for COVID essential workers! Not a single nurse, therapist, doctor, grocery clerk, etc. should walk away from this pandemic with even a single dollar of student debt. If we can’t do this for them, then it will never happen for anyone.

[–]salamat_engot 6 points7 points  (10 children)

How does one define an essential worker? For example my partner is a social worker for cancer patients at a hospital, so he had to continue going in every day. But another social worker might have been working from home doing telehealth. Yeah my partner had to go to work every day, but workers in telehealth worked long hours with stressed clients, so both were heavily impacted. I would argue both deserve loan forgiveness, but I know many would argue only my partner does because he works at a hospital.

[–]docpurple5891 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Not a single nurse, therapist, doctor, grocery clerk, etc

Would this not be how they define it?

Just because the government or a corporation defines it in a shady way, doesn't mean they did too.

[–]salamat_engot 7 points8 points  (6 children)

What's the etc though? Teachers? Social workers? Janitors/custodians? Electricians? Plumbers? You could go on and on and argue everyone is essential.

[–]scathing1 26 points27 points  (35 children)

Kudos to Biden for actually doing something right. Imagine thinking you were a victim for slightly overpaying for college and believing you deserve reparations. That's sociopathic, how about showing some human decency and empathy for the real victims - the people who couldn't attend college because of the high cost and who would now get screwed again by this proposal which leaves them with nothing while their privileged peers get showered in free government money. Shame on all the greedy assholes advocating for this.

[–]Wegmanoid 11 points12 points  (11 children)

Why do comments like these get down voted? What about the people who didn't go to college because it was going to be too expensive? People act like college is the only way to earn a decent living.

So again, what about the people who decided that it was too much of a financial risk to attend a university?

Someone mentioned that when students loans are canceled, they can purchase homes or property. Will the people who have paid their student debt, or not taken any on, be rewarded for their choices?

I love aoc

[–]ihatepinkoscum 11 points12 points  (6 children)

What about the people who didn't go to college because it was going to be too expensive?

They have to pay for the degrees of people with more job opportunities than them.

[–]thedude1179 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Because Reddit is full of overly liberal entitled college students who can't think of anyone but themselves or their immediate social circle.

[–]BillionaireBombshell 27 points28 points  (10 children)

I thought he said he was going to do that when we voted for him? I really thought that was one of the first things he was going to do.

[–]CrispyMann 20 points21 points  (10 children)

Just saying… as a Dem it would be nice if our party handed us this win.

I don’t give AF of the other side is pissed- they’re pissed about everything and don’t want Biden to do anyyyyyything in Congress.

Stop wasting precious time playing into their stall tactics. Be a decisive leader and make it happen for us. Will of the people and all that- use some of that Fucking political capital on your constituents ffs.

[–]inasuma 16 points17 points  (28 children)

Biden is essentially a conservative at this point. What else is new.

[–]Apocketfulofwhimsy 18 points19 points  (3 children)

He always has been. The right just paints him as some crazy leftist because they have moved so far right that everyone else seems extreme to them.

[–]Monkey_Legend 7 points8 points  (4 children)

I'm still fuming at Hunter being an addict whilst Biden is actively pro drug war, why does Hunter avoid prison but not everyone else. Same goes for the Clintons and Bushs for having addicts in the family. Neolibs and neocons are all hypocrites.

[–]phteven_phtevens 3 points4 points  (3 children)

why is one persons addiction a reflection of someone elses stance on drugs?

[–]Monkey_Legend 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I don't judge Hunter for having an addiction, but Joe Biden said he was proud of his son for overcoming addiction in this clip (ignore Trump for a sec) yet he specifically championed polices like the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 which increased mandatory minimums for drug possession.

So we can be proud for Hunter for overcoming his addiction but other people struggling with addiction get sent to jail? That is hypocrisy, if he said Hunter should have faced criminal consequences for his addiction then he wouldn't be one.

[–]Compalompateer 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Atr you seriously comparing his stance on the issue from 1984 and his stance from 2020 like they are weeks apart? Peoples views can change bruh.

[–]The_White_Guar 5 points6 points  (0 children)



[–]QuitArguingWithMe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't know what country you're from, but as an American I'd really like to know what media you consume.

Either you know nothing about American conservatives or you... like them, sorta? Except on a few fringe issues?

[–]eluna303 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Also THC-9 legalization please. People should not be going to prison and having their lives ruined over a few joints and brownies.

[–]TMSXL 18 points19 points  (10 children)

Fuck it, if we can’t agree on cancelling, at least cancel or drastically reduce the interest. I can buy a fucking car at near zero percent interest but I can’t refinance my student loans anywhere near today’s rates with a near 800 credit score.

[–]red0yukipdbpe 10 points11 points  (4 children)

This is the right solution. Lower current interest rates, and cap them for new student loans.

Cancelling the student debt doesn't help future generations.

[–]dietcokeeee 16 points17 points  (22 children)

If he doesn’t cancel student debt, he should be fully prepared for a Republican president after him

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 9 points10 points  (1 child)

As if the people that would benefit from debt cancellation aren't already in the bag for the democrats.

[–]Gangreless 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not just any Republican president.

[–]gslavik 4 points5 points  (4 children)

As if a Republican president would.

[–]thesilentlinkin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This comment right here is why us voters are mocked around the world. Its a SINGLE issue and not even close to the most important issue.

[–]Sasquatchii 16 points17 points  (55 children)

What does that even mean, cancel student debt? There's a contract in place, money exchanged hands, one party is owed money contractually. Is she saying that people other than those who took the loan are responsible for paying it back? Or is she saying that people who lent the money are screwed and will never receive their (rightful - contractually obligated) principle and interest because it's politically convenient?

[–]ihatepinkoscum 18 points19 points  (17 children)

Also that people who never had the opportunity to go to college have to for some reason pay for the debt of people that went to college.

[–]thischildslife 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Never had money to go to college. Never took out any loans either. I do not support "cancel" student debt at all. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[–]JoshAllenforMessiah 5 points6 points  (24 children)

Don't forget the people that never went to college due to the cost. Or the people that sacrificed or worked during college to pay it off.

[–]Draculea 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'd also be curious to know by which mechanism an executive order can absolve private debt - like, does the government have the power to unilaterally deny someone of their property? Even eminent domain can be fought in court.

[–]MisterWinchester 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ron Howard: “He won’t”.

[–]ClathrateRemonte 12 points13 points  (19 children)

Honestly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[–]thedude1179 11 points12 points  (16 children)

I'm sorry but AOC is wrong here, millions of Americans live in extreme poverty, don't know where their next meal is coming from and don't have access to even clean drinking water.

Personally I think it would be really immoral as a country to be giving money to those in society that are already privileged enough to have the ability to attend college.

Help the people that really need help first, this would be an embarrassing use of resources.

[–]EnchantedTiki7 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm all for education, but why are we trying save a demographic that has statistically already made it? I'd understand if it was only teachers or something but everyone?

[–]Humankeg 8 points9 points  (31 children)

No. I paid off my student debt and don't feel like paying off the student debt of hundreds of thousands of other people.

[–]thedude1179 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I don't know it sounds like a nice idea but if you're already in the privileged position of being able to go to college I just feel that money could be better used for helping people less fortunate, ie. Homeless, extreme poverty, medical care, affordable child care so people can work, 2 million Americans still don't have clean safe drinking water.

Help the people at the bottom of society first.

[–]CedTruz 6 points7 points  (1 child)

AOC is an idiot if she doesn’t understand why he doesn’t have the authority to do this. An no amount of reposting this will change that.

[–]counselthedevil 6 points7 points  (69 children)

bUt I hAd To PaY mInE sO oThEr pEopLe ShoUldnT gEt hElP eIthEr...


[–]mghoffmann_banned 7 points8 points  (61 children)

I chose to make sacrifices and spread my degree out over the last 7 years to avoid debt. Where's my $60k handout? Oh, I just get slapped with competitors in my housing market having their credit scores inflated with my stolen income instead?

No thanks. Pay your own debts.

[–]mr_mangroves 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This but unironically. This is such a toddler level cop out. Why exactly did I have to be responsible and you don’t? Why did I have to work to pay back money and you don’t?

Because it’s hard and you want things handed to you. Like everything else in life

[–]nongo 7 points8 points  (2 children)

If college becomes tuition-free, how is the military suppose to recruit and indoctrinate low income students who feel like they have no idea and opportunities on career prospects?

[–]FlamingoBasher 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Right - cancel debt for the privileged class who signed a contract and borrowed money for school. This doesn't benefit brown folk like it does young white urbanites.

How about we cancel the interest and wipe medical debt. Going to school is a choice. Getting a knee replaced and being sent a bill for 50K is not.

This is the most whack, white privilege fucking argument circulating today. Get real. You want the rednecks to freak out? This is how you get the rednecks to freak out.

[–]Little_Baby_6450 6 points7 points  (0 children)

AOC is out her god damn mind. No one asked you to spend $150k on your shit ass degree.

[–]Lets-Make-Love 5 points6 points  (0 children)

He never will and if AOCs job was on the line if she didn't vote no, she would just fall in line like she always does.

[–]clarkstud 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Quite a budding dictator she is.

[–]QweenBee5 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Just cancel all debt. Why are you not doing that instead? "Well we only want what helps our white middle class demographic only"

[–]neutralneutrals 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Plenty of non-white people, like me have student loans. Working class people also have student loans as most jobs don’t pay enough to pay for schooling out of pocket. Black Americans end up with much a larger student debt burden (and often from predatory for profit colleges). I agree with canceling all debt of course. But does this include mortgages and corporate debt? That might be a problem.

[–]TheUSDemogragugy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As long as people without student loans gets a fat 30k check as well.

[–]Nymeria2015 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  • So, AOC attended one of the most expensive private schools ( Boston University) in one of the most expensive cities in the US. That's a choice she made and good for her. There are millions like her. Why should I pay for their choices?

  • Most low income and minority students hold debt of less than $10,000. Students in high-income jobs predominately have high amounts of student loans. Again, why should I pay, for, say, a plastic surgeon with a $300,000 student loan or a software engineer undergrad from MIT, with student loans, who will probably get a nice fat cheque each month and FAANG stock options?

  • For the past few decades, the executive branch has slowly & steadily chipped away power from the legislative body. Republicans & Democrats are both to blame for this. In a presidential system like the US, this precedent is dangerous and should not be a solution.

  • There is an assumption that an executive order will result in Congress passing legislation to make college/trade schools tuition-free. Huh? Who is going to pay for this free tuition to attend private universities, for example? How will Congress make its case to the people? I'm all for offering subsidised education by expanding community colleges and even free trade schools that train students to achieve employment. But I'm most certainly opposed to paying for many graduates attaining degrees in Cultural Studies, Theatre, Media Studies, Psychology, Sociology etc. How many critical thinkers do we need? I'm also opposed to paying students who get a degree in Business & degrees in STEM that essentially guarantees decent-paying white collr jobs.

  • All of this call for debt abolition does not question why the US education cost is so high? Maybe we need to address that before we forgive student debt.

  • Finally, people like AOC, an economics student, doesn't seem to understand that the US can keep printing $ piling on debt because it is currently the world's global currency reserve. As of today, there is no challenger to it. But that doesn't mean there won't be one in the future. Then what?

  • This is the problem with populist both on the right & left. They offer a simple solution to complex issues without details, brainstorming complexities and challenges and how they will tackle them. Yet everyone laps it up.

  • Besides, with inflation hovering around 5% and everyone from right to centre in a panic mode, good luck trying to get the student debt wiped out.

[–]ZKXX 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I got an email from fedloan yesterday saying I don’t qualify for Income based repayments anymore because I make too much money. Meanwhile I can only afford a shit one bedroom apartment, and now my payments will be half as much as my rent.

[–]loose--cannon 4 points5 points  (2 children)

AOC and Marjorie Taylor Green use the same tactics. Make ridiculous statements to attract attention and campaign donations. This would never happen but look how reddit soiled their panties over it.

[–]Snail_Christ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

ITT a bunch of priveleged white fucks who think not canceling all student debt makes a president conservative 😂

[–]Malism 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Probably will be downvoted into the seventh layer of hell, but this isn't going to happen. The only way if would happen is if they made it free going forward. You think all these colleges building stupid amounts of shit and having huge bloated admin staff from the sky high tuition are going to give that up and get nickel and dimed like Medicare does to the healthcare industry? Better chance of that seventh layer of hell freezing over.

This is coming from a guy who is about to be paying for college for his son.

[–]samueljacksonson 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It blows my mind that people think canceling student debt, debt people took on voluntarily, should be canceled by executive order. Just make everyone pay for these people’s poor choices, and not even by popular vote in either the senate or congress. This would effectively be theft to pay for privileged college educated class of Americans. Fuck off and own up to your financial responsibilities, shits so unethical it hurts my head.

[–]OneFlewOverMyHead 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You signed the contract.

Got the money.

Got the degree.

ANd now you want a refund basically without having to give up the knowledge you got.

Honestly if student loan forgiveness is done I hope they make it so those people lose the right to vote forever. Can't handle a simple contract and money? No way you can handle voting

[–]Prestigious_Card_234 4 points5 points  (45 children)

wahhh i can’t handle responsibilities. pay my debts of!! then give me more free stuff.... then quickly bankrupt and communize this nation one empty promise at a time. Groundbreaking stuff AOC. Bravo!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[–]Low_Shoe_3136 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Once again, who cares what AOC says.

[–]Roundaboutsix 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Taxpayers shouldn’t be forced to pay other folk’s debts. It should be an Extra Tax checkbox for those sympathetic to the debtors’ plight. A lot of Redditors, for example, want to see student debt cancelled. Those individuals should step forward and volunteer to have extra taxes deducted from their paychecks. Those of us other folks struggling with our own bills, mortgages, car payments, etc. should not be further burdened with other folks’ poor decisions.

[–]T1T2GRE 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Canceling the debt is not the solution. How about looking at one of the root problems (malignant tuition and room fees) first? Stop throwing money at overpriced education.

[–]Mangopanini88 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Do you think that by posting this every day it’s magically going to happen? At this point there is absolutely no chance.

[–]triplexthrowaway 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Uhhh okay, then who's going to go back and reimburse the college I paid out of pocket for?

[–]alliownisbroken 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Why the fuck should the idiots who signed for that money get their loans forgiven?

I would be OK with him eliminating the interest.

[–]Bowl_of_goat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Or, you could pay your own way🤷‍♂️

[–]DrowZee_69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is fucking retarded

[–]EnigmaFilms 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That tweet is totally going to do it this time

[–]Particular-Mindless 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I’m all for it. But I’m a college student. I don’t get financial aide. I can’t get student loans. I’m paying every semester out of pocket. I feel like because I’m poor it’s a big FUCK YOU to me for all these people who got the easy college life riding off loans acting like they need them covered now. If I’m working minimum wage to cover my shit then you should be able to use you college degree to cover your loans and your other shit too. It’s like 25$ payments a month? If the tuition isn’t free after the erase debt then I will be resentful toward those people the rest of my life and I hate that.