×

The Great Arcade Fire & Age of Anxiety II (Rabbit Hole) by JacobHacksEnd of the Empire in arcadefire

[–]Altruistic-Onion-222 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I noticed it too! The parallel could be intentional – seems like for WE they’ve looked at the past more than usual (for example there are the parts of songs – if I remember correctly one of them is the Lightning – taken from very old ideas, the Lightning methaphor itself and the Lightning drawing from the Funeral booklet, not to mention the themes of the album in general). Or maybe it’s just a subconscious thing, who knows. Artists tend to repeat themselves all the time after all, looking at the same concept from many different angles.

Anyway, whether intentional or not, the two songs do have some thematic similarities.

The Great Arcade Fire is a song about, I think, the end of innocence and the inevitability of watching the fire unfold, human nature and death. “The Great” before the two nouns depicts the fire as a fictious historical event (also the reason why the band name had the article in front of it at the beginning, I guess), one could think of it as something that happened some time in the past of the “Neighborhood”. The great fire being, kind of a Fall from Eden, an Exile from Arcadia (Arcadia apocalypse).

In Rabbit Hole as well, there’s a sense on inevitability, of falling through a deep and endless hole, the very long trip that is life, a labyrinth built by God, by Dedalus in the myth, by our fathers when we’re born…

God is sleeping, watching the world on tv, ignoring the the fire unfolding over his bed. Or the narrator is sleeping, he’s still young in his childhood bedroom with posters on the walls, and the fire is a sort of omen of future things, of future loss of innocence, like the Christmas tree burning in the other song.

Review from Montreal’s La Presse by kakarikovillager in arcadefire

[–]magomra 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This has been mostly a media driven panic. The band just proved they're musically as strong as ever and not going anywhere. They'll be back on the road next year and WE will be there.

Review from Montreal’s La Presse by kakarikovillager in arcadefire

[–]beardedjack 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I can name 100 musicians that have been caught, admitted to, or even bragged about being sleazy with their fans. Non of which have had the vitriol of this magnitude that Win Butler has received. Why is that?

Review from Montreal’s La Presse by kakarikovillager in arcadefire

[–]lampshade732 34 points35 points  (0 children)

I wasn't at the Montreal show so can't comment on it specifically. But I think it is multiple attempts to destroy this band at this point and make this stick to them. It's clear they've performed phenomenally throughout this tour and that turnout was fairly good.

Does all this make me think less of Win? Yes. Does that impact how I enjoyed the show I went to and listening to their music now? No. I thought it might but the music and performance was incredible. And Arcade Fire is not just Win.

I understand there were power differentials at play with the sexual interactions he had that made them dicey. But these were all legal, consenting adults. Let's remember that. I'm with the others on this forum that some of the reactions to this minimize the experiences of individuals that experience horrific sexual violence. I do not think Win is a violent, sexual predator. And if he was I could not go to the shows or enjoy the music. But that doesn't mean I condone his actions either.

What is next for Arcade Fire? - Discussion by Graham433 in arcadefire

[–]GoTime81 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Probably a little break, which is obvious for any band that has just finished touring and recently released an album.

The whole situation with Win is totally blown out of proportion. It’s not a good look, but the accusations are extremely weak. I suggest reading the articles on Pitchfork for yourself. It is bullshit. Regret after consent is not rape. We are living in the cancel culture so that’s what we are somewhat seeing.

The music is still amazing. The concert I saw at Mohegan Sun absolutely rocked. Good luck to the band. Good luck to Win and Regine. I’d hardly call their marriage conventional, they are rock and roll stars after all.

In the end, we are fans and always want more!

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]Dream_in_Cerulean 70 points71 points  (0 children)

What is up with Pitchfork? This reads like “Sweet Valley High.” Did they actually cite her diary???

So….a divorced adult woman becomes attracted to a man once she realizes how famous he is, longs to be intellectual buddies, cheats on her boyfriend and fucks the famous dude for three years, and is retroactively upset that she did so.

It sucks to fall for someone who just wants you for sex, for real. Butler also seems super clueless and unable to read the room. But Pitchfork is engaging in some sleazy journalism here.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]Dream_in_Cerulean 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I am surprised by how many people do not see that taking autonomy away from young women is a dangerous line of reasoning. If a 22 year old woman is not capable of sexual decision making, then what other decisions fall into question? There was a time not long ago when women were not allowed to vote or have their own credit cards because they were not viewed as being capable of making their own choices. It really bothers me to see this author and so many commenters who seem to view young women as incapable of decision making, and imply that only the man is capable. Very questionable line of thinking that leads to some unpleasant results.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]Lost_Found84 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I hate being in the position to have to say this, but when I’m reading an account where she basically says, ‘I never said no or tried to stop him and I was really attracted to him and wanted a deeper relationship with him so I could see why he thought it was consensual’, I can’t help myself…

That’s not why he thought it was consensual. That’s why it was consensual. And I have yet to read one word why any of these women were surprised that the guy they saw once every few months, who was already married literally to his bandmate and career, was not interested in a “deeper relationship”. None of these women have claimed that he said he would leave his marriage, so why do they all act like they expected it anyway.

It really rubs me the wrong way when it appears that something has ceased to be consensual only after a year plus of you not getting what you wanted out of the relationship, especially when what you wanted was never a reasonable or promised expectation in the first place.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]bb5199 245 points246 points  (0 children)

Stories like this hurt women who have legitimate accusations of real crimes. This is college/high school crap like regretting who you slept with. Most reasonable people who read the full details will think Win wasn't a stand-up guy but he committed no crime.

The Pitchfork article reads like the woman had zero autonomy about her sexual encounters. Like she was a hypnotized person with no control over her actions and it's all Win's fault for wanting to have sex with her. Give me a break.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]The-Figurehead 114 points115 points  (0 children)

This is really base journalism. We have an adult woman who had an ongoing sexual relationship with a needy, horny weirdo who feels jilted and is now questioning the reasons she engaged in that relationship.

Making this a news story is trashy, tabloid sensationalism. Trying to frame this story as an example of sexual predation or abuse is grossly irresponsible and downright malicious.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]DM65536 23 points24 points  (0 children)

What’s astounding here is how many of you superfans hold your regard for a band 12 years past its prime (look up the release date of The Suburbs) higher than you do well-being of this young woman.

Unless I'm misreading this, "past its prime" seems like an oddly petty dig to work into a paragraph that ends with hand wringing over concern for a human being. Would her well-being matter less to you if they'd just won their 2011 Grammy last year or something? (I'm sure it wouldn't, of course, but you're sending a weird message here.)

She told the guy that she was in a dark emotional place and he responded with a photo of himself jerking it and hours of pathetic pleas for her to come over.

I assure you, I find this as gross as you do, but I'm genuinely curious: is there a reason, in your mind, why she wouldn't simply block the number of a guy who behaves like this? You don't have to defend his actions to wonder why this wasn't an instant deal breaker for her. And if the answer is more hand waving about "power dynamics" (I'm sorry if that sounds sarcastic, I'm just frustrated by how vague and ill-defined these new buzzwords always are), aren't we being a bit infantilizing? If a 22-year-old can't be expected to say "ugh, fuck this dirtbag" to a guy who sends dick pics in response to a comment about her emotional state, what exactly can she be expected to do? (Again, it's a genuine question; it's not meant to be a gotcha.)

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]rfamico 182 points183 points  (0 children)

Where do you begin with a story like this? Where the first story had some potentially problematic allegations, this is just a woman rescinding consent years later because of perceived power dynamics. He's not your boss, he has no control over your future; be accountable for your actions rather than absolving yourself and blaming it on the other party. You had celebrity brain and choose to be with someone on the basis of fame.

This story only works if you assume that somehow Win is more evolved? more lucid about the situation? whereas the other person is incapable of autonomy or dominion over one's decisions and therefore it's up to Win to be the responsible one.

How does this work exactly? Should famous people only sleep with people of equal standing?

My takeaway from this is that Sabina probably requires power of attorney.

If I'm Win, this is the story that gives him grounds for defamation of character.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]blueballs_demarco 12 points13 points  (0 children)

So basically,

she didn’t know who he was at first but when her friend told her who he was she went gaga over him?

And only because he was famous. So she decided to go on some clout high and have sex with him even though he asked if she had a boyfriend

I think what makes it so hypocritical is that she still had sex with him for almost a year while she’s still with her boyfriend

She’s over here talking about emotional damage and stuff but what about the boyfriend? Who knows how long they’ve been together and how much memories they created.

I feel bad for bro being with some unloyal chick who belongs to the streets giving him sloppy seconds

Don’t get me wrong what Win did was sleezy too but definitely not illegal I just hate how they make her seem like she had no control when she was 22 and mature enough to make her own damn decisions

They both are in the wrong. I genuinely thought Win was deeply in love with his wife who is fucking incredible and talented but who truly know what happens behind closed doors

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]tehdudee 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Look I am not defending him but this is such bullshit. She cheated on her bf (wonder how this guy felt, maybe she was shitty to him?) for the famous man because he talked about poets.

Yeah he sounds like a dick but what did you expect from a guy who is married in huge band. Then she kept contact with him, had sex again in 2018 because she has her place now. Sorry that’s not assault, thats you having sex (multiple times) with a guy you regret with. And of course he won’t commit, they had 3 long ass tours in those years and he is MARRIED! Smfh.

You really think HE IS GONNA LEAVE HIS WIFE AND KIDS FOR YOU? His wife sucks and you’re better? She’s effin Regine and do you really want a guy who leaves his wife & kids for you to be your partner?

I just feel bad for the dude whose gf cheated and left him for a rock star.

Fifth Person Details Arcade Fire Frontman Win Butler’s Allegedly “Manipulative, Toxic” Behavior by thecitiesweliveincould be distant stars in arcadefire

[–]tomacco99 33 points34 points  (0 children)

This article actually makes me feel better about seeing Arcade Fire next week, which is not Pitchfork’s intent I’m sure. Now I find myself giving Pitchfork the side-eye more than Win. What are they doing? This article is not worth posting and only discredits the media’s coverage of these stories. There’s no allegation of assault or anything. All I’m seeing is a story about a young woman who had an affair with a rock star, misinterpreted the nature of the relationship, had tons of consensual sex with him, and regrets it in hindsight. They’ve crossed a line with this article, and now they’re in “hit job” territory, sorry to say. This is not responsible journalism. Yes, we understand at this point that Win slept around, and was sleazy and insensitive for a few years. This is not newsworthy though.

Pitchfork unfollowed Arcade Fire on Instagram by Kellermanc007 in arcadefire

[–]thehotredditmonster 39 points40 points  (0 children)

"Because she didn’t overtly say no or otherwise try to stop him, Sabina believes Butler would characterize the sex as consensual."

Ya, so would the law

High level impressions of first leg of WE tour? by sternmd in arcadefire

[–]little-bird 16 points17 points  (0 children)

good point. I also don’t appreciate the timing from Pitchfork because it comes across as an attention/drama seeking move rather than a journalistic drive to expose some truths, and it was planned without any concern for the other artists and professionals whose livelihoods currently depend on the band. take Win down if that’s the right thing to do, leave everyone else alone.