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[–]Eric_T_Meraki 8841 points8842 points  (610 children)

Wasn't Jimmy one of the guys that Kawhi called but turned him down to play together?

Edit: lol PG wasn't even his first choice

[–]Raptorsjps78 5872 points5873 points  (527 children)

Kawhi asked KD first, then Jimmy and then forced the PG trade

[–]ThunderiCarpet 7771 points7772 points  (339 children)

Thank you Kawhi for saving my franchise

[–]jaytee158 1759 points1760 points  (276 children)

The assets were too much on day one of that trade for a two-year deal. One year in, yikes

[–]LakersTetsuoS2 1091 points1092 points  (219 children)

If CP3 keeps playing at this level someone will definitely pay the high price of the remaing two years to take him off the Thunder and into a playoff run.

[–]Pelicanszacree 108 points109 points  (19 children)

CP3 is the youngin' whisperer. Anybody with a group of talented but inexperienced younger players would be better with CP3 than whoever they have at point guard. As long as they listen to the point God, they'll be better and get better.

[–]cavemanthewise 18 points19 points  (5 children)

The Bulls lol

[–]squeakyboy81 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Perhaps CP3 to Phoenix. The could have a really good year or two.

[–]jaytee158 713 points714 points  (112 children)

Honestly sounded like it's over for him in OKC if that end-of-season video was anything to go by. Seemed like he knew he was actively on the trading block.

I just wonder who does it. I can see the fit in Milwaukee but the cap dynamics are rough and it's ULTRA short-term

[–]SupersonicsShiva- 569 points570 points  (85 children)

People keep saying it's short term as if it's a bad thing. Milwaukee really only needs/wants him short term anyways. He's fucking old. Father time WILL catch up to him.

The trick here for the Bucks is to not give up much of their future while still getting him.

[–]Bucksbuttstuff_magoo 317 points318 points  (44 children)

If they can take Bledsoe with the picks it’d be nice. Bledsoe is a horrific fit with Giannis but too expensive to be on the bench for long periods

[–]ThunderThe_Grey_Wind 126 points127 points  (34 children)

I don't like this trade for the Thunder if Bledsoe is involved. Another athletic defender and rim finisher who can't shoot. Don't need any more of those.

But I don't see this trade happening without Bledsoe if they want to make the money work reasonably.

[–]Pistonsnoveler7 125 points126 points  (23 children)

Get a third team involved cough Pistons cough that would be willing to take an expensive mediocre PG if it meant getting a 2nd rounder or two.

[–]Celticstheyoungreezy 116 points117 points  (5 children)

I honestly like Bledsoe. But you are 100% correct he is a terrible fit. Cp3 would be a very nice addition.

[–]NetsKevin_Durant_Burner 79 points80 points  (10 children)

It kind of already has. He can't beat his man like he could in 2018.

He's still the point god, but I don't see him pushing the Bucks over the edge.

[–]Celticstheyoungreezy 79 points80 points  (2 children)

Swap him out for Bledsoe, a non shooter, and I think he’ll help out the half court offense a lot.

[–]Spursunfurledwarrior5150 17 points18 points  (1 child)

You see what he did for the Thunder.

[–]ThunderMonster-1776 89 points90 points  (7 children)

Strong chance we move him over the summer. We've clearly indicated we're in full on tank mode losing Billy Donovan and CP3 dismissed any lingering questions regarding his value with this season. A team looking to add a playmaker/seasoned vet to push them over the top isn't going to wait until the deadline; he'll have more value getting integrated in a team earlier on.

[–]Pelicanszacree 193 points194 points  (4 children)

sir summer has ended

[–]ThunderMonster-1776 65 points66 points  (0 children)

Lmfao, didn't even realize I said summer. Man this year has been weird as shit with Covid, even months are starting to blur together at this point.

[–][MIA] Dwyane WadeFinalHero13 102 points103 points  (0 children)

Summer 2020 delayed to 2021 due to covid.

[–]12footjumpshot 59 points60 points  (61 children)

It's more than likely that CP3 is traded this offseason. The only question mark is the revised salary cap making it difficult for teams to take on his money, but outside of that CP3 should be playing for a contender next season.

[–]Slobbin 31 points32 points  (54 children)

Is there any possible way he goes to the Lakers or is that impossible?

[–]SunsPunctualPolarBear 231 points232 points  (2 children)

David Stern gonna come back from the grave to veto that again

[–]CelticsQuarantineTaratino 55 points56 points  (12 children)

They don't really have the salaries to match in a trade. Danny Green is the their next highest paid guy at $15m after Lebron and AD. After that, everyone is on a bargain contract or expiring this season

[–]Eric_T_Meraki 118 points119 points  (34 children)

Balmer also went all in with the Zune banking it would destroy the iPod. History repeats itself.

[–]occupy_voting_booth 101 points102 points  (32 children)

But Zune was actually better though.

[–]nowayimbelgian 85 points86 points  (24 children)

Marketing > quality

[–]crawlingchip 92 points93 points  (17 children)

Zune wasn't any better to users in a meaningful way. The market was already full of MP3 players from various companies. Zune was just a more polished product with a higher marketing budget than the existing MP3 players but with no obvious unique selling point over the iPod to most consumers. Those who wanted more features already had a wide range of competing devices such as iRiver.

The Zune HD was neat but it was outdated from the beginning with the iPhone and the iPod Touch already on the market.

The Clippers do have a bit of that Zune feeling. You cannot just try to replicate the success without finding out the problem to solve for the market.

edit: There had been hundreds of MP3 players with drag&drop support available for years before the Zune. It's baffling why so many of you think that was the killer feature of Zune.

[–]hzs1000 139 points140 points  (2 children)

Thunder should retire Kawhi’s number

[–]KnicksfirstbreathOOC 36 points37 points  (13 children)

Will be fun to see what you guys do with all these draft picks. If the CP3 rumors are true, we might be offering even more (including another clippers 1st this year).

[–]Registered to VoteIn_The_Paint 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Will be fun to see what you guys do with all these draft picks.

Especially with someone who has such a good track record of drafting like Presti.

[–]Thunderheavy_hiker 44 points45 points  (8 children)

Cp3 would be good for any team, but the knicks could really use a steady hand and a good teacher for the young dudes.

[–]WarriorsSharksFanAbroad 348 points349 points  (70 children)

Pretty crazy that Kawhi, Jimmy, Giannis, Dray, Gobert, Marc and Jokic were all outside of the lottery. All in the last decade except Marc. Just crossed my mind randomly.

[–]HeatCorrineontheCobb 176 points177 points  (25 children)

Bad organizations (that tend to get top picks) plus bad luck tends make things like that more likely to happen.

Meanwhile good organizations tend to both draft well and develop players who in other places would be ruined.

[–]Lakersshoefly72 70 points71 points  (9 children)

That's part of it, but I think the natural development cycle of people in any field has a lot more to do with it. I work in the design field and know a lot of people who were superstar students and the best and brightest in college, but their skillset/personality traits don't lend themselves as well to the professional world. I know others who slacked off a ton in college, never really showed much promise, and had terrible work habits, only to do a total 180, mature in their early 20's and become really successful.

It's really hard to predict who will continue to improve, who has already hit their ceiling, who will start working harder vs. who already feels burnt out and is just glad to "make it" and provide for their family. You look at a guy like Jaylen Brown, who came into the league with poor handles and rusty outside shooting. He has a great head on his shoulders, wants to be great, and he's improved leaps and bounds since his rookie season. But for every guy like him, there's a dozen who are never able to improve their shot/ handles, or their passing instincts etc. Other guys came into the league with better jumpers, but stayed pretty much the same player they were in college/their rookie year.

Obviously some orgs are much better at scouting than others, but I think people overlook the human element of professional development/maturity far too much when talking about draft busts in any sport.

[–]CavaliersAffordableGrousing 57 points58 points  (2 children)

Yep, Morey talks about this at length in Michael Lewis's book The Undoing Project for anyone interested. It's the subject of the first chapter, which is free online if you google it.

One bit that stuck with me is that the Rockets basically stopped interviewing prospects before the draft because it was generally more misleading than helpful. There was no correlation between saying the right things in order to get drafted and actually following through.

A funnier fact is that the Rockets' scouting team nicknamed Marc Gasol "man boobs" during the pre-draft process, and Morey was so mad after he turned out to be good that he made a new policy forbidding nicknames entirely.

[–]Raptorsthegoodbadandsmoggy 18 points19 points  (0 children)

A funnier fact is that the Rockets' scouting team nicknamed Marc Gasol "man boobs"

Lot of history with the Rockets and Man Boobs it seems

[–]ImGoodAtPowerball 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I can safely predict any first round pick for the Hornets never developing past draft day with about 90% certainty

[–]Thunderline_6 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Didn't he go after Kyrie as well? I don't think PG was super high on his list.

[–]RaptorsWannaBeTycoon 53 points54 points  (2 children)

Harden beal and Kyrie too

[–]76ersunexpectedvillain 42 points43 points  (9 children)

Where does Kyrie fit in?

[–]Warriorshanlong 364 points365 points  (2 children)

Kyrie was afraid to go all the way to the west coast since he doesn’t know what lies past the edge of the flat earth

[–]Lakersanothernewaccount98 88 points89 points  (0 children)

Kyrie called him but got left on read and decided for KD

[–]NetsNicClaxtonIsHotAF 484 points485 points  (28 children)

Heard kawhi called KD,kyrie,Jimmy, tried to trade for harden, and Beal ......thennnnn Had to settle with PG 😂😂😂😂

[–]RocketsRobo_Doge90 246 points247 points  (13 children)

The fuck would the clips have to offer for Harden lmao. They'd have to pull a Morey and trade every 1st rounder for the next 10 years + half the squad.

[–]NetsNicClaxtonIsHotAF 130 points131 points  (2 children)

Harden was prob untouchable regardless then that’s why we saw them settle for PG

[–]blisteringchristmas 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Even in hindsight of this season and the Rockets looking like they’re on a downward trend I don’t think there’s an amount of picks in the world that could make that trade happen before a couple years from now. They’re at least a few years away from a rebuild.

[–][HOU] James HardenHardenForThree 40 points41 points  (6 children)

Never heard this. Source?

[–]CurryWithThe30Frm30 105 points106 points  (5 children)

No, that was me.

[–]Cavaliers BandwagonStrahan92 54 points55 points  (4 children)

What up, Seth?

[–]Raptorsmexican_mystery_meat 101 points102 points  (5 children)

PG was literally the fifth option for Kawhi.

[–]RaptorsOrange_Sherbet 70 points71 points  (3 children)

Bet he's wishing he'd gone with his 6 option now...

[–]Lakersb3n_d0ver 13 points14 points  (0 children)

He called mainly free agents

[–]Lakersjosephkristian 10 points11 points  (0 children)

He was plan P.

[–]bbqyak 5050 points5051 points  (418 children)

This is why it's ridiculous when people try to pretend intangibles don't exist. The separation we just witnessed between Butler and PG has little to do with skill. It's all in the mind. PG arguably SHOULD be the better player. But Butler's leadership skills, hustle, attitude, etc. Dude is who you want playing next to you on the court.

[–]Thromkai 758 points759 points  (33 children)

Butler got the perfect number 2 floor general in Dragic, too. Dude will not let the Heat quit on him either. His body language is positive and he's always in his team's face about plays and keeping them in.

[–]jewboydan 255 points256 points  (2 children)

prob my fave player tbh. i played fantasy one year like 6 years ago and he was my guy so i always have a soft spot for that slovenian dragon

[–]Historical-Author-49 171 points172 points  (20 children)

I've been saying it about the Clippers in my post-mortem assessment, they're sorely missing a floor general. Imagine them with a Dragic, a Rondo, a Lowry. Completely different team, IMO. They need a steady hand to run the offense, Pat Beverly isn't that guy.

[–]Bullscdrizzle5 129 points130 points  (3 children)

Pat Beverly is just Kris Dunn with more clout

[–][DAL] Maxi KleberAsnSensation 48 points49 points  (1 child)

Pat Bev wish he was as good defensively as Kris Dunn. He tricked the media into voting him All Defense Team

[–]Yacht ClubDacoLordo 67 points68 points  (2 children)

Pat Bev is like a homeless man's version of Tony Allen. Good defense, but doesn't give you playmaking or scoring like a point guard should. Swap in Rondo another guy who still can't really score but can pass and play D, and they definitely win the series.

[–]Historical-Author-49 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Pat Bev is like a homeless man's version of Tony Allen.

That's the perfect analogy. And I agree, with even a decent point guard who can set Kawhi up for shots, it's a whole different team and probably a different series.

[–]Trumppered 975 points976 points  (150 children)

I mean you could say that about the entire Clippers/Nuggets series.

Clippers on paper are the more talented team. They should have for sure won this series.

But Nuggets had every intangible in their favor.

[–]WarriorsShadowClawz 642 points643 points  (121 children)

Synergy >>> Talent abundance

[–]Timberwolvesthomki 526 points527 points  (60 children)

thats what i remember about the pre KD warriors. cutting, quick passing, team ball. defense. half these superstars think yall won through step back iso 3's all game

[–]Warriorsbilyl 306 points307 points  (44 children)

The team worked so well because everyone had the “green light” to take a good shot and were held accountable to it. It degenerated in 2019 because nobody outside of Curry/KD/Klay could make a FG during the playoffs.

[–]TimberwolvesHypern1ke 224 points225 points  (41 children)

and it wouldn't have mattered one bit if KD didn't get hurt

[–]Arcille 158 points159 points  (14 children)

If Klay was 100% warriors also win imo or force a close game 7 at least

Klay was doing bits

[–][TOR] Jose CalderonMasaiGotUsNow 53 points54 points  (23 children)

Yea cause there has never been a team that was that much more talented than the rest. That’s why everyone was complaining the 3 years Kd was there.

Not sure why people say warriors would’ve won if KD was healthy last year, like it’s some bold take. Of course they would’ve won. There has never been a team that is guaranteed success like those warriors.

[–]Warriorsdiasfordays 78 points79 points  (21 children)

You ever watch Cars, where in the beginning Lightning forgoes new tires and gets a huge lead on the other racers but then blows his tires? That's what happened with the Warriors. They took the "Strength in Numbers" squad and stripped it for parts to get KD. From that moment on, it was a risk/reward thing. They could out-talent any team, but a key injury and it's all over. They ended up with two key injuries and it was GG Raptors.

I'll get flamed by other Dubs fans for it, but a large part of me wishes KD never came and we could have seen just what could have been.

[–]KnicksDddddddfried 52 points53 points  (3 children)

Thanks in large part to Mr. Intangible himself Draymond Green

[–]BigOzymandias 26 points27 points  (6 children)

True and it was proven before by 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavericks

[–]Trumppered 158 points159 points  (35 children)

gimme Rondo OR Caruso over bumass Pat Beverly

[–]WarriorsShadowClawz 168 points169 points  (24 children)

I wouldn't want PatBev on my team especially when he was talking shit on our service crew. Fucking trashy thing to do.

[–][LAL] Marcelo Huertashenstobs11 96 points97 points  (13 children)

Can't believe some people have the audacity to say PBev is the guy you hate as an opponent but would love on your team lmao fuck that I will never root for a guy like him.

They compare him to legit guys like Marcus Smart and Lowry. The only common factor is flopping but those 2 are legit defenders and great emotional leaders.

PBev ain't a leader, he's just vocal cause barking is all he does.

[–][OKC] Russell WestbrookNobodyRules 62 points63 points  (5 children)

The NBA is a brotherhood but that fucking hyena might be the player that most guys hate along with the fans. That shit he did to your staff was embarrassing. He's a pathetic and dirty player to go along with all his antics.

Couldn't be happier to see that clown losing to the Nuggets.

[–]Clippersaleph4 35 points36 points  (1 child)

People keep saying this but this is only true if Jokic isn't playing like a future HOF and Murray having a huge break out.

They also had the mental edge, but Nuggets are and have been a great team (for a few years now).

[–]NuggetsFukeLalknor 92 points93 points  (15 children)

I disagree on the talent part, I really do. This just shows how underappreciated the Nuggets still are and how little people actually know our roster.

We are a great team, talent wise. And we are still playing without one KEY player, in Will Barton. Denver is up there.

[–]HeatAnCo18 29 points30 points  (7 children)

I agree, I had the series going to 6/7 and everybody clowned me for it. Nuggets roster is stacked, Jokic is a superstar (especially in the playoffs) and with Murray's level of play, Nuggets were equal on talent with the Clippers.

[–]junkit33 1119 points1120 points  (133 children)

Yep - intangibles are real. George absolutely has more raw talent than Butler, but Butler is completely locked in right now and brings all the things you can't quantify to the table.

Marcus Smart is another guy in the same mold. I'm not sure there are really 25 better basketball players in the NBA than Smart, but if you want to sit there and analyze stats and skills on paper then you probably wouldn't even put him in the Top 50 unless you heavily value defense.

[–]HeatClercLecharles 649 points650 points  (33 children)

Butler is completely locked in right now

This is a business trip for him. He's not messing around

[–][CHI] Andres NocioniStevenColbert2016 308 points309 points  (23 children)

Love my dad, but is him not shaving part of this mentality? I could see him doing some weird playoff beard even though nobody in the league does it and his facial hair is objectively awful lol

[–]Buckslupe_the_jedi 120 points121 points  (1 child)

I hated it at first but it’s grown on me lol, I think I have just gained so much respect for Jimmy as I’ve watched the playoffs

[–]BullsJohn0612 157 points158 points  (2 children)

Yeah that mustache has been too long this whole bubble lol

[–]Bulls Tankwagonnau5 207 points208 points  (0 children)

The mustache isn’t for the nephews it’s for Moms.

[–][LAL] Kobe BryantCallMeLargeFather 62 points63 points  (0 children)

He's siphoning Harden's skill

[–]Trail BlazersDankBank419 29 points30 points  (1 child)

Maybe he’s trying to attract Jamals girl? What Jimmy, KATs gf wasn’t enough for you?

[–]Thunderheavy_hiker 42 points43 points  (2 children)

He’s going for a bad ass cowboy gun slinger costume for Halloween. You got to put in the work if you want to the the best.

[–]MGubser 20 points21 points  (3 children)

The longer he's in the bubble, the more money he's making on coffee sales.

[–]Heatclear831 106 points107 points  (16 children)

Marcus Smart is another guy in the same mold

He is, players in that mold are extremely hard to find and you gotta hold onto them. They may not be your number one guy but they make the team. Their hustle and mindset is contagious.

[–]Muscles_Testosterone 73 points74 points  (11 children)

Dudes who are willing to truly sacrifice their bodies are the rarest commodity in the league. Say what you will about Smart's flopping, and he certainly does flop a lot, but he also takes a ton of actual hard hits and just gets up and shakes it off every time. There's no play that he's unwilling to make.

[–]RaptorsIronicopinion 20 points21 points  (2 children)

It seems to be a common theme that players who are criticized heavily for flopping also put their body on the line for the team e.g. Lowry

[–]Raptorsmorron88 65 points66 points  (2 children)

Butler, Smart and Lowry definitely make NBA All-dog.

[–]LakersDireGambit 266 points267 points  (41 children)

Guys like Smart are harder to find than superstars.

[–]Heatb-aaron 244 points245 points  (16 children)

Smart is so fucking god dammed good. Its like having a shutdown corner in football, he just takes whoever he's guarding out of the game with insane motor, just never stops. And then like last night, the Heat sold out to slow down Kemba and Smart goes off for 26 points.

[–]CelticsProphet_Of_Helix 148 points149 points  (11 children)

Kemba’s been doing a good job of slowing himself down for several games...

[–]Celticsw311sh1t 49 points50 points  (7 children)

Personally, I’m of the mind that the C’s offense has still looked better while Kemba is on the floor. Sure, he’s not scoring, but they’re also throwing Jae Crowder and Jimmy Butler at him, and doubling him everywhere. As a result, more shots are getting opened up for other guys. Although I will admit, that Kemba iso towards the end of the game, where he basically dribbled our the entire possession just made absolutely no sense. For a guy that’s been pretty team focused this entire year, it seemed like a super selfish hero ball move.

[–]Masmug 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Am I crazy for remembering Kemba getting Isos at the end of games constantly last series? And like always hitting a step back or driving and getting the team easy points off passes.

He's Bostons best closer and honestly one of the best closers in the whole NBA. I'd happily take one bad iso in all these playoff games for all the other huge plays he's made at the end of games.

Honestly the play I had the biggest problem with last game was Tatums iso where he shot like a 30 foot stepback to end regulation.

[–]TrapHandsHalleluajh 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Everytime I watch the Celtics I'm confused as to why they never run plays at the end of games. I thought Brad Stevens was some sort of genius at drawing up plays at the end of games, but all the do is Kemba iso or Tatum iso.

[–][CHI] Andres NocioniStevenColbert2016 50 points51 points  (10 children)

Superstars are most of the time pretty obvious to find. Just hard to get a draft pick/appealing city to attract them. lol

[–][HOU] Jonny FlynnBigDKane 75 points76 points  (11 children)

Tatum and Brown might be Allstars, but Marcus Smart will get his number retired in Boston if he plays his whole career there.

[–]MavericksCammyTheGreat 124 points125 points  (0 children)

Boston’s gonna run out of numbers man

[–]Maverickshumax02[🍰] 30 points31 points  (6 children)

If it was other team probably or maybe but its the Celtics.

[–]Bullseternal_nova 25 points26 points  (5 children)

I think it’s pretty arguable that PG even has more talent than Jimmy. It isn’t just Jimmy’s murder competitiveness that makes him valuable. He’s a damn good multi-faceted player too. He can shoot decently, he’s a great finisher, he can iso well, he can make smart reads within an offense. And then yeah, on top of that he can take over a game when needed.

Even without intangibles I’d still rather have Butler than PG.

[–]stiff_member 116 points117 points  (14 children)

It wasn't a year ago that everybody was questioning Butler's leadership skills and attitude.

[–]Rocketsgurkmcdirt 98 points99 points  (3 children)

last year we were praising the Clippers for getting more games out of the KD Warriors than Lebron ever did while laughing at the Lakers for missing the playoffs

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Jimmy just has that Whiplash kind of relationship with effort going on. Its probably true its not going to get results from most dudes but the few that vibe with him are gonna ride hard with him

[–]RaptorsKizz3r 38 points39 points  (4 children)

Its why raptor fans love lowry even if he is in a shooting slump. Dude does everything else on the court, and tries his hardest to win.

[–]RaptorsBUNSHICHl 31 points32 points  (5 children)

Difference between inviting contact and being scared of contact, Butler also has a better handle as well so he can make more things happen along with his superior playmaking. When PGs shot is not dropping he's not giving you much on offense. Both are excellent defenders though.

[–]jewboydan 13 points14 points  (1 child)

eh idk him and akwhi were so soft yesterday. both shooting terribly and they each drove twice maybe?(probably exaggerating but you get my point). YOU GUYS ARE SUPERSTARS, GET TO THE LINE!! couldnt believe it

[–]gana04 15 points16 points  (9 children)

I always gave the edge to PG, and he does have better individual stats but yeah, when it matters Jimmy shows up. I would pick Jimmy today

[–]NBAChigurrh 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Those intangibles result in tangible results though....like playoff wins.

[–]FeatheringItBrother 3137 points3138 points  (164 children)

Those "dawgs" that the ESPN analysts kept claiming the Clippers were? That's Butler and the Heat. Jimmy, Bam, Crowder. Those are dawgs.

[–]BernardoDeGalvez 612 points613 points  (48 children)

Damn, even Tyler Herro is more of a dawg than PG

[–]Registered to VoteIn_The_Paint 371 points372 points  (11 children)

Tyler Herro has tungsten nuts. Absoloutely no fear pulling the trigger at any point.

[–]LakersLAKERSfanTV 61 points62 points  (1 child)

Herro is what Kuz wished he was in his first two years here.

[–]LakersZurdo112 36 points37 points  (0 children)

He even got with Kuz’s ex 😂

[–]Raptorsfabrar 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Herro is badass. Dude has absolutely no fear taking huge shots in big games - and making them too.

[–]HornetsImChz 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I really thought I was gonna hate the kid because he seems so fuckin cocky but I’ll be damned if he isn’t fun as fuck to watch play. Runnin all over the god damn place at full speed with absolutely no regard for pressure. I love it. Dudes gonna be good for a longgggg time.

[–]SlouchyTulip 358 points359 points  (32 children)

PG knocked up a stripper and now has to live with her. Lmao. That is not dawg behavior.

[–]CelticsDominoNo- 234 points235 points  (8 children)

PG is a dog, but he's not a dog.

[–]CelticsBobaLives01925 102 points103 points  (3 children)

Dog doesn’t mean dog. I’ll explain later.

[–][MIA] Michael Beasleyhckygod91 63 points64 points  (6 children)

As much fun as it is to hate PG, I don't think that's fair. He knocked the stripper up, then married her. As dishonorable as cheating and then offering money to have her abort the kid, he owned his mistake and married her and is raising his kid, which I think is a good thing

[–][MIA] Dwyane WadeAncientChrist 74 points75 points  (4 children)

Tyler too. You didn’t see that shot last night he took? Rookies don’t just take those shots with that level of confidence and splash it.

[–]Trumppered 338 points339 points  (60 children)

I forgot who it was but some dumbfuck on ESPN actually said (right after talking about how many "dogs" the Clippers have):

"The Lakers don't even have one."

I'm just so happy to see the entire basketball world coming together in our mutual disdain for the Clippers.

[–]Miceland 495 points496 points  (29 children)

The Clippers honestly have too many dogs

Half their team is low IQ/high intimidation role players, and as the game is slipping away all they can do is bark a lot

Paul Millsap, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, Goran Dragic, Iggy—it’s possible to fill out your roster with tough, high effort guys without signing a Morris twin

Meme team Lakers honestly have the same problem, but Lebron is a generational locker room guy. He’s like Tom Brady, where even Aaron Hernandez would keep the bullshit to a minimum

[–]Grizzliesblondechinesehair 164 points165 points  (4 children)

Other than the murder, that is

[–]Miceland 152 points153 points  (1 child)

The Lebron “why” face at JR except it’s Hernandez running away with a gun

[–]76ersmadrigalec 17 points18 points  (1 child)

at least it didn’t happen inside the locker room though!

[–]Nuggetsvenividiikarma 52 points53 points  (7 children)

I know morris more ppg but when him and millsap got in each others' faces early in the series it hadn't really hit me until then that they fill similar roles. Good comparison

And also that while morris looks tough, millsap has fucking 40 lbs over him lol

[–]Warriorsvarsityvideogamer 28 points29 points  (2 children)

yeah and also millsap has the emotional maturity of an adult

[–]Lakersstchairs 71 points72 points  (0 children)

This guy. Great analogy.

[–]HeatJag- 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Lebron: And no killing until the Finals are over!

Aaron: Ok....

[–]Eric_T_Meraki 120 points121 points  (16 children)

Lakers got Playoff Rondo

[–]RocketsBaby_giraffes 145 points146 points  (12 children)

I can't tell you how demoralizing it was to get fucked by Rondo last series. Even after we took game 1 I still didn't expect to win the series. I was predicting we'd get shit on by LeBron and/or AD because that's kind of obvious, but seeing Rondo draped all over Harden and pressing him from full-court nearly every time up the floor and then just draining wide open 3s that the Rockets were giving him... That was just sad, but playoff Rondo is very real.

[–]CavaliersJepordee 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Is Rondo a hall of famer?

[–][SAC] DeMarcus CousinsSolarClipz 22 points23 points  (0 children)

In my heart he is

[–]KingsSolidPoint 57 points58 points  (2 children)

Rajon is pretty good

But his brother took Westbrook out

[–]branzino_smith 105 points106 points  (4 children)

ESPN might as well put a "we're stupid" disclaimer before every show because I can tell you right now Paul pierce has no idea what he's talking about, and Jalen Rose is just there to show off his ridiculous hairline

[–]Timberwolvesthomki 24 points25 points  (0 children)

i switched fully to the athletic because of how stupid the normal sports shows have gotten. espn beyond Lowe is intolerable

[–]Celticsakfourty7 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Bro im not even gonna be mad if the Celtics lose, Jimmy is hard to root against.

[–]Heatjesuschin 27 points28 points  (0 children)

We haven't even unleashed Udonis on anybody yet. He's the secret weapon

[–]CelticsShowersWithDad 59 points60 points  (11 children)

The Heat players have such big fucking gonads man. I feel like we're slightly more talented but they're just cut different than we are.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (7 children)

Im not sure you are. I would take tatum over bam but they are about on the same tier for different reason. butler is certainly better than brown at least. dragic is blowing the doors off any comparison to walker. herro and robinson are two of the most ridiculous fuck you shooters in the league, crowder and maple dick, Iggy, god damn this heat team is deep

Im assuming hayward is out of the matchup right now

[–]CelticsNervousPervis 12 points13 points  (6 children)

Yup. People underestimate how much talent the Heat have on that roster. Gotta judge their current play rather than past reputation. A lot of their guys are playing as good as they ever have and it’s coming together because they play hard and are well coached. They let Butler and Dragic do the work on offense and get defenses off balance. Bam makes the right reads from the middle and their shooters are on fire. Defensively they fight hard through picks and on close outs and Bam covers the rim. The Celtics really should have more open 3s considering how hard they’ve been doubling Kemba, but they rotate almost as fast as Boston swings the ball.

Much deeper than the Cs and the top 3/4 is pretty even if Kemba isn’t putting up all-star numbers. I think healthy Hayward would shift the balance to the Cs because he is such an improvement over the bench guys, but he isn’t available so gotta evaluate the matchup without him.

I think this will be a series and the Celtics had stretches where they looked much more talented than the Heat, but the reverse is true as well.

[–]JayJax_23 1141 points1142 points  (66 children)

PG is weird like he was more clutch/reliable in Indiana 2013-2014

[–]midlohokie73 807 points808 points  (21 children)

there was much less pressure then, they were not supposed to beat Miami so he was playing with house money. When the pressure got turned up for him as a go to guy, he's wilted over and over

[–]king_chill 618 points619 points  (14 children)

To be fair he also snapped his leg in half around that time

[–]crawlingchip 363 points364 points  (9 children)

George did have that awesome season with OKC where he was arguably a legit MVP candidate for the bulk of the year but he got injured again and wasn't the same after.

[–]0marscoming 146 points147 points  (7 children)

Imo he was a top 3 candidate that year. Elite scoring + a legit case for DPOY.

[–]Wadehey 93 points94 points  (4 children)

That year lol, you mean last year.

[–]kashebe 53 points54 points  (3 children)

Lmao to be fair, it feels like it was decades ago

[–]Warriorsiamacoomerama 180 points181 points  (16 children)

Hasn’t been the same since busting his leg imo. I know he had a career year in okc but it seems like he drives less and less aggressively when he does

[–]Heatclear831 106 points107 points  (2 children)

Yea his leg now his shoulder issues. He isnt the same player

[–]LakersUnableComb 164 points165 points  (7 children)

There was a point late in yesterday's game where the outcome was essentially decided by PG not taking the game seriously. During an attempted comeback in the 4th, he got pissed at Jerami Grant and kept whining, trying to talk trash etc. This went on for a good 20 seconds, across the full length of the court, and progressed to such an extent that PG completely ignored his own man in the corner to turn and glare/jaw at Grant (who had the ball 10ft away). After several seconds of being ignored, his assignment proceeded to stroll to the rim, receive the easy pass and score.

Instantly went from an easy stop and potential comeback push to feeling unwinnable. Dumbest part, Grant was unbothered and seemed to be completely ignoring him the whole time.

[–]Trail Blazersshrimpflyrice 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Funny that they were teammates last year too.

[–][MIA] Glen Ricecrashingtheboards 956 points957 points  (59 children)

I don't know man, seeing that third and fourth quarters showed that no one on that Clips team had heart to play. I think Jimmy would have been frustrated, a la Twolves, of having to carry his team on his back. Jimmy would have had to slow that game down and been yelling at everyone to work harder.

There was no creativity going down the stretch. You're down by double digits in the fourth and you keep throwing up 3s? Why? Go and grind it out. Make plays. The Nugs were NOT making anything either in those first two minutes.

[–]Kundrew1 424 points425 points  (17 children)

They had plenty of open 3s its not like they were all bad shots. They just couldn't make anything.

[–]jaytee158 430 points431 points  (9 children)

Correct, PG taking that corner 3 was a good shot by any standard. Hitting the backboard is more about the moment than anything.

[–]MavericksLukesGreenMilky 308 points309 points  (6 children)

It was a statement brick.

[–]Raptorsjuicegod 71 points72 points  (0 children)

0 points isn’t 0 points, I’ll explain later

[–]Raptorsrookie-mistake 12 points13 points  (0 children)

honestly the 4th quarter felt full of them

[–]CelticsThatguy19901 87 points88 points  (3 children)

Condensed playoff schedule has teams gassed. Especially teams that have consistently played 6-7 games series. The Nuggets winning 6 straight elimination games playing 3-4 games a week is nothing short of spectacular.

[–]Lakers6ca 75 points76 points  (0 children)

Of all the teams in the bubble though, it makes sense that the Nuggets have what it takes to play at a high level without getting gassed. They play one of the slowest paces in the league and are used to playing home games at high elevation, plus now they don't have to travel.

[–]Heatclear831 62 points63 points  (10 children)

I think Jimmy would have been frustrated, a la Twolves, of having to carry his team on his back. Jimmy would have had to slow that game down and been yelling at everyone to work harder.

I am not taking up for Kawhi but that is how he looked yesterday.

[–]LakersDoILookUnsureToYou 62 points63 points  (3 children)

Kawhi looked like he was about to crush someone's head with his palms when they were heading for the locker

[–]TimHung931017 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Mans shoulda stayed on Toronto. At least the Raps would've fought their hearts out

[–][SAC] DeMarcus CousinsSolarClipz 24 points25 points  (0 children)

You know deep down he hates how the rest of his team are a bunch of assholes lol

They all talked all the shit expect him to carry them

And now he gotta deal with his bed

[–]tradeintel828384839 21 points22 points  (3 children)

That’s part organization part role players feeding off the energy of star players. When u feel u can’t go to war with ur “star” players and yet they still get all the attention, ur gonna feel less invested in winning. You see JB put in the work so u want to play harder, not the same with PG (Kawhi is a net neutral imo, no positive or negative affect.) you saw the same thing with the rockets. It’s like Bill Simmons says the secret to basketball is that it’s not about basketball, anyone whose had a squad they’re comfortable hooping with knows this.

[–]LakersBagoLGJ 375 points376 points  (5 children)

Jimmy is the real dawg

[–]LakersBatmanNoPrep 127 points128 points  (0 children)

Always has been. 👩🏽‍🚀🔫👩🏽‍🚀

[–]Grizzliestc1988 581 points582 points  (50 children)

This whole argument is based on the assumption that players never get better / worse. Players aren't static. They get better or worse every year.

Jimmy Butler was better this year, especially in the playoffs.

Paul George was much better last year.

[–]Raptorsbanned4shrooms 67 points68 points  (2 children)

Indiana PG was the complete opposite of current PG. He played so well against bron in those playoffs. Played well with pressure

[–]Warriors707royalty 118 points119 points  (1 child)

Exactly. If your asking me who I want today based on what we've seen lately, it's Jimmy. Doesn't mean PG is trash tho...

[–]BullsClaymoresRevenge 127 points128 points  (5 children)

They're different players, at one point I hoped we could get them both in Chicago. But they have different styles PG is known as a better shooter. But Jimmy is a better playmaker and defender. I think having to cut your nose on defense really helps you grind out those hard wins. Jimmy had that in spades when Thibs had him play those low scoring tough defensive games.

[–]Bish_Fantastic 37 points38 points  (0 children)

I’ll admit to not “getting” what Jimmy brought to the table until this year. I thought he was good, not great, & was bad for the locker room. Goes to show you what happens when you get a great personality fit between player & team culture.

[–]NetsOmar_Indeed 1448 points1449 points 2 (269 children)

Okay I'll bite on this massive overreaction and this thread full of "I've always rated Jimmy above PG". OPs argument is entirely opinion and hypothetical based and then says there's no counter argument.

I'll hit on the clutch thing first since that seems to be what people are basing 90% of their opinion on. The Jimmy Butler being clutch is pretty narrative driven. This season among 81 players with 30+ FGA in clutch situations (< 5 min, game within 5 points) Jimmy with ranked 80th in FG%. He shot 28% overall and 3 of 20 (15%) from 3 (https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=FG_PCT&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CF=FGA*GE*30). PG clutch shooting wasn't great but better than most other star players that take a lot. Ahead of Lebron, Harden, Doncic, Kyrie, Kemba. If we're also going to say that Jimmy is a tier 1 star, then he should receive blame for not getting the Sixers out of the 2nd round in the same way we're piling on PG for notting getting the Clippers out of the 2nd round. That's not even to mention that Jimmy has played his entire playoff career in the East.

Overall their splits for their entire playoff careers are pretty comparable. Jimmy is 18 ppg, 5.5 reb, 3.6 asts, 1.6 stl on 44/36/83 shooting and PG is 20 ppg, 7.1 reb, 3.8 asts, 1.6 stl on 42/36/82 shooting. The whole thing of Jimmy is some monster in the playoffs and/or clutch and PG shrinks is just massively overstated and not backed up by any stats.

Outside of all that PG is just straight up better in the regular season. Better offensive player, better defensive player. I guess we're all cool forgetting Jimmy shot literally 24% from 3 this season. PG hasn't been below 36% since his rookie season. We're forgetting that Paul George was 3rd in the MVP LAST SEASON. Jimmy has .0005 career MVP shares from placing 10th in 2014, PG was 9th that season. PG has made 5 All-NBA teams, Jimmy has made 2. I'm not going to list off a bunch of stats but look them up if you really don't believe me.

Now I'm not even trying to make this a PG > Jimmy thing, but it's absolutely idiotic that this sub has jumped onto this and agrees that this isn't an argument anymore based on overreacting on 1 night of games versus 10 years of them playing basketball. Intangibles are a real thing but I'm not going to feed into this knee jerk reaction where we make definitive statements with 0 backing.

[–]Lakers148-3369 282 points283 points  (5 children)

They do stuff like this and then complain about sports news anchors having ridiculous takes lol

[–][LAL] Kyle KuzmaIdiotCharizard 172 points173 points  (29 children)

Watching the celtics heat game, if jimmy hadnt made the corner 3 or the and-1, people would be pretty pissed with his execution. credit to him that he did, and that is the definition of clutch

but he was wasting possessions and running down the shot clock only to get a bad shot for himself or a teammate. going away from what miami did best in passing and moving just seems like a poor idea when they were getting much better shot attempts otherwise.

[–]valleyjugni 56 points57 points  (25 children)

Same.

Jimmy has had games where he hasnt been great but his team wins so nobody gives a fuck

[–]2018-19 Over/Unders Top 10VeGanbarimasu 96 points97 points  (7 children)

Now I'm not even trying to make this a PG > Jimmy thing, but it's absolutely idiotic that this sub has jumped onto this and agrees that this isn't an argument anymore based on overreacting on 1 night of games versus 10 years of them playing basketball. Intangibles are a real thing but I'm not going to feed into this knee jerk reaction where we make definitive statements with 0 backing.

100% agree. I'm so tired of people on this sub pretending they don't like hot takes but then overreacting every single time one or two bad games happen.

Next thing, people will be talking about Kawhi not being that good in the playoffs despite the fact that he was the best player in the playoffs last year, best or second-best in 2017 before he went down with injury, and arguably best this year right up until game 6 of this series. Two bad games in an important series for his career? Yeah, that matters. But the hot takes are going to ignore everything Kawhi has done to build up his impressive resume and over-fixate on a couple of subpar performances.

[–]grimsleeper4 71 points72 points  (13 children)

Agree that this thread is a gross overreaction. That being said, I'd rather have Jimmy Butler on my team than Paul George. Jimmy is a leader, George is not. The intangible matter, and Butler is just such a great presence on a team - as long as they want to work hard.

[–]NetsOmar_Indeed 59 points60 points  (12 children)

Honestly agreed on all fronts. My main pushback on OP's post isn't that I think PG is way better than Jimmy, it's the whole "it's over there's no argument" thing. There's absolutely an argument, that's a big part of why discussing the NBA is fun. My opinion is that with an already established culture and leader, PG is an A+ piece that doesn't need the ball too much to have big impact. Butler has proven that without an established leader/culture, he's great at creating one to elevate a team. Not sure how he would fit playing alongside a ball dominant superstar though.

[–][BOS] Jaylen Brownrumdiary 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Title of this thread is dramatic lol

[–]rowthecow 127 points128 points  (29 children)

Pg seems to have lost interest in the game after his injury.

[–]PacersObi2 169 points170 points  (22 children)

It’s all mental. At Indiana he was an underdog. The city supported him. He was able to learn from Granger. He decided he wanted more. He wanted big lights and an easy route to a ring. That’s when people started calling him a snake. He was. I longer universally liked, and began to wilt. You see it on his social media. He just can’t take people not being 100% on his side like the easy days in Indy. It’s all mental.

[–]Warriors707royalty 50 points51 points  (10 children)

Lol is PG just a dollar store KD?

[–]Hornetsmetsguy9978 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You’re talking like youre his therapist lol

[–]TimberwolvesSpaghettiBoy1123 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The one where he broke his leg or the most recent one?