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A Criticism/Open Letter on the Cherry Tree Membership service (self.TheNational)

submitted by JKay96

Hi everyone,

First of all this post isn't to bash the Cherry Tree Membership unfairly but to highlight some of the issues with it and why I think it's value is becoming more meaningless over time. I've been a member since Year 2 and I live in the UK for reference.

The last couple of years, but more specifically this year, the Vinyl side of Cherry Tree has been really disappointing. I think it's fair to say that the large bulk of the cost of the service is in the vinyl and so far we've had little to no updates on where this next one is coming. I know there have been vinyl delays but soon I'll have paid for next years subscription without even getting this years record.

I also think some of the 'perks' are incredibly disappointing, a 20 second teaser for a song and presale access to gigs that don't sell out (at least here in the UK).

The store has also been lacking. There have been no new designs or anything since the store opened, and if you're outside of the US the shipping is eyewatering on some of it anyway. The exclusive variants have been good (The Self titled, Sad Songs, Cherry Tree) but these have been long sold out, and if you'd say, signed up this year, there's nothing really exclusive for you snag.

I didn't want this to just be an open criticism without some ideas that maybe could make the service a lot better and a lot more appealing and here are some of my thoughts:

  1. More openness on yearly CT record delays - maybe add a disclaimer when buying the membership that says you could be waiting a while as ever since year 1 they haven't been coming at a steady time
  2. Make the giveaways more visible/easy to enter - there have been times of late where there have been giveaways, but these have been marketed through emails. Make it enterable through the CT sub website.
  3. Old Merch Clear-out Sales - Something akin to the 'WASTE disposal service' Radiohead have, checking the warehouses for old stock from tours long gone for t shirts/posters/other memorabilia that die hards would be interested in. Give CT members first dibs.
  4. In concert perks - Maybe access to the soundcheck at some of the national's own gigs? Can't imagine there would be many CT members at each show so outside of festival performances maybe invite fans in for soundchecking or something?

I hope my points were constructive and I'm not saying all of them can be delivered but they were just some off the top of my head thoughts that could make the service better. Again, no bad words for the people running the CT service - just thinking for ways the value proposition would be better.

Thoughts?

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[–]sentinel24601 27 points28 points  (5 children)

i think they did soundcheck perks for members the first year but should definitely bring that back. there really isnt anything special other than the vinyl, which as you say, has yet to materialize this year. i dont mind $50 for a yearly exclusive vinyl and i dont blame them for manufacturing delays but you're not wrong that there could be more to it.

[–]echidnadna 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Matt has said on several occasions that paid meet and greets are something he just won’t do. He doesn’t like the idea of it and he gets bad social anxiety… considering that meet and greets almost always take place before the show. And he has very bad pre-performance anxiety as well. I wouldn’t want to demand anything like soundcheck attendance because ultimately, soundcheck is for the band. And having an audience there might ruin the focus and thus, the very purpose of soundcheck.

Maybe giving cherry tree members more giveaways like fun things (limited edition/out of print posters, cherry tree swag, and even giving them an option to vote on like two songs— one of which is guaranteed to be played at the next concert, or something like that).

I wish I worked for the band’s “swag” department because I’m a graphic designer and I would love to make some cool t shirts and hoodies hahaha. I made my own hoodie that zips all the way up and across the back spine it says “I’m afraid of everyone.” And it has a kangaroo pocket with a hidden velcro pocket on the inside of the kangaroo pocket and that has “I don’t have the drugs to sort it out” embroidered on it. I made it by cutting two hoodies in half and then sewing a zipper into it and adding pockets like hidden ones and two smaller pocket on the low sleeves that are opposite colors as the side they’re sewn on. And one says “hard to find” and the other says, “easy to find.”

I’ll take any personal requests and/or ideas anyone has!!! I’m trying to upcycle a lot of my clothes because I have so much I haven’t worn or rarely wear. And I have way too many hoodies.

[–]velvetmoons 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I'd love occasional soundcheck access but really good points about that. They could definitely make money from meet and greet stuff but they don't seem like those type of dudes, which I appreciate tbh. Is that something Matt mentioned in an interview?

I've seen some artists do zoom hangouts with fanclub members (which seems kinda awkward tbh) but what if like 1-2 times a year, CT members could submit questions ahead of a short live conversation with an interviewer and 1-2 of the members. That could make for some fun, truly exclusive content. I was just remembering the random instagram lives Matt did with Julien Baker and Sam from Future Islands.

Contests, like every quarter, for random or previous merch would also be really cool

[–]echidnadna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of it was either directly stated in Mistaken for Strangers (the movie) and the rest was from a few different interviews. I’ll post the primary interview that I’m thinking of when/if I find it!

[–]schewbacca 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Can we still say the yearly exclusive vinyl is out of their control? Other bands are restocking and pushing limited variants left and right.

[–]sentinel24601 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there's probably a difference in production for a one-time pressing of an exclusive recording than for a repressing of an old record or a new record that a label would keep in print

[–]Dazlcooper 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I joined pretty much on day 1 I think (around august 2018). Have just had my 5th payment taken and obviously only had the 3 vinyls. I’m happy being patient but a monthly update email should be the minimum really.

Also if/when there is a cherry tree variant of the new album on vinyl then they should make sure they have the ability for all members to get one.

[–]JKay96[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Yes definitely on the last point, all CT members should get the exclusives.

[–]hornfan83 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s a great thought. The pressing should be essentially a reserved copy for all members, limit of 1 if they need to.

[–]ntlcherrytree 37 points38 points  (7 children)

Hi all,

Thanks for this thread. The feedback is helpful to us and it's good to know where your guys' heads are at regarding all of this. We're constantly looking for new ways to add value to the CT membership. We have a small but dedicated group of people working on this project and trust us when we say that the vinyl delays are just as frustrating to us. We've tried our best to keep you guys in the loop throughout the process and typically if there are no updates, it's because we have no new information to share.

We are still waiting to hear from the pressing plant on exactly when Volume 4 will be complete, but we are optimistic that it will arrive at our fulfilment warehouse within the next couple months. With the global vinyl pressing delays we are currently experiencing, it’s quite difficult to pin down even an approximate timeline without speaking out of turn. We sincerely apologize for the delay and hope you guys understand. We're doing everything we can to get it finished and on its way to you.

Just to provide some context, the quantity of the limited edition vinyl we press at the end of our membership year is based on the number of members that have signed up for that year. For that reason, the membership vinyl is always shipped after the membership year is concluded. With current pressing delays, that puts us much farther out than usual in terms of the ship date. Volume 4 is for members who joined or renewed in 2021. If you had a 2022 renewal already, you are eligible to receive the exclusive 2023 vinyl that is scheduled for next year.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit. We will have some news soon so keep an eye on your inboxes. We are working on some exciting things for the coming year! If any of you have specific questions regarding your membership or eligibility, feel free to shoot us an email at cherrytree@americanmary.com. It might take us a couple of days, but we try to answer every message.

Thanks again for the feedback and for all of your support over the years 🍒

[–]paxcoont 12 points13 points  (0 children)

bring soundchecks back pleasseeeeeeee

[–]teeodoubled 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Question re: this, if we cancel CT now and are 2 years of vinyl behind, will we still receive those two years shipments eventually?

[–]JKay96[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your reply. And thanks for all the work you do in the CT team, much appreciated <3

[–]Shdqkc 2 points3 points  (3 children)

So offer digital downloads? I have no means to play vinyl and no interest in purchasing the necessary equipment just for this so I have no reason to join cherry tree. Offer digital downloads and I'll sign up immediately.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Shdqkc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I understand and I guess the reason to still join would be the other perks such as ticketing.

    End of the day, they are cutting off a large portion of the fan base by making it vinyl only. At least do a CD.

    [–]almaupsidesi won’t be vacant anymore 9 points10 points  (0 children)

    You’re 100% right! I feel like even with vinyl production problems which they can’t really control, surely they could probably rustle up some other benefits— even if it was like, access to some exclusive digital stuff or whatever. Some new physical merch would be the bare minimum. I don’t think you’re in the wrong for complaining honestly, it’s a paid service and even when stuff doesn’t go to plan which happens they should have at least something to still make it worthwhile for people.

    [–]JMW57 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    Kind of agree. I loved it when the vinyls were coming on time and the band was touring regularly. (I got a couple of great presale seats in 2018/2019).

    In the last 18 or so months, I've given them $100 with nothing to show for it.

    Hard to blame them for COVID touring delays but I wonder if I will continue.

    [–]FleshToast 13 points14 points  (0 children)

    I’m at the point where I don’t know which version we are waiting on because the schedules are so weird. 2021? 2022? 2023?! I love the end product but the lack of updates and the need for more extra special content sort of bums me out. On top of that the shipping to Canada from the store can be wildly expensive and every tshirt I’ve purchased has been sized funny or been made out of extremely thin material.

    [–]BeWario5 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Same, the reason I signed up for the Cherry Tree service was the exclusive vinyl, but so far no information on shipping and delivery. I'm outside US so probably would have to pay import tax as well, making the whole thing a bit... Disappointing?

    [–]velvetmoons 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    There are some pretty fair critiques and suggestions here.

    I'm jealous of the members who got to attend a soundcheck or secret show, like the one they did in Chicago in a random food court during the IAETF run. I hope they bring these back during the next album tour!

    The reissued variants sold out so quickly! For future releases like that, there should really be a limit of 1 per person or a waitlist for people who want to buy more than one copy so more members have a shot at getting one. I completely missed out on these :(

    Regarding the delay on V4, I think most people are frustrated just from not understanding how the whole process works (not just global pressing delays, but from the final count, pressing order, processing time, etc) so transparency and communication on the timeline could really help in that space.

    It would be awesome if they could share a digital version of at least one track on each vinyl.

    [–]JKay96[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

    u/ntlcherrytree

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]bigdickdizzy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Agree man. Had a pretty rough experience where I joined CT to buy the Light Years book, but unbeknownst to me, it can take up to 24 hours for the membership to land. By the time it had cleared, Light Years had sold out and I was out like $100 Australian.

      [–]Educational_Score700 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      not a member, but I wonder: do members ever actually get "exclusive content" like they write on the website? i.e.: Access to demo recordings or b-sides, or just update e-mails about tours or recording sessions? Or is really just the vinyl + priority ticketing + access to some items on the webshop to buy

      [–]HeyKid_HelpComputer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      I can't recall any exclusives outside of the stuff you've mentioned honestly. I missed year 1 and that's it.

      [–]JKay96[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      All what you listed and occasionally some competitions, that's it.

      [–]Equivalent-Shoe6239 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Couldn’t agree more. If there’s Homecoming next year, having first dibs on VIP or Platnium tickets would be awesome. Or CT member-only gathering at Homecoming? (I got Homecoming on the brain). The merch hasn’t been refreshed since pre-pandemic I think.

      [–]bennnn11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      I mean for some the concerns I think the pandemic had a huge impact on it. But as far as sales or contests, I absolutely think that should be a thing. Old concert merch would be incredible to look through and buy. I’d also like some official live mp3s or something. But I think the membership is worth it for the vinyl cause so far each volume has gotten better and better. I am frustrated we don’t have the new one yet, but it really is out of their hands.

      [–]hobbesthecat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      Solid points

      [–]mixmastermiike 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      just my thought, but maybe have a separate line to merch at concerts if you are a cherry tree member? Sort of like a water park, you've paid for "vip" membership so to me that seems fair.

      [–]tdubeauI used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      There's a really simple point on the vinyl that people overlook, including myself as I was also frustrated by this for a while.

      The vinyl is tied to a calendar year. That means anyone who becomes a member between Jan 1 and Dec 31 is eligible for vinyl of that year. They don't order production until after the year ends so they don't end up with excess stock- like they did the first year. There's no point guessing and overproducing. With the current delays, you're looking at 9 - 12 months to press.

      So if your membership renews in March 2021, you could be waiting 18 months to get the vinyl you paid for.

      Final point here. If the perks aren't worth it to you then why are you still paying?

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      I haven’t complained, but in defense of the OP here they were quite clear that their post was meant to be constructive and they even offered suggestions for how they felt it could be better. I think a lot of fans enjoy the membership and want to support the band but also feel that improvements could be made. You’re acting like those things are mutually exclusive, which they certainly are not. Personally I’m happy with the membership, but I would absolutely welcome more exclusives, whether it be music or merch.

      [–]JKay96[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      That's fair on the Vinyl side, I do think that things like that should be clearly described in the sign up page though - or like others have said, a few more updates would be nice instead of the 'it's coming' which they normally post.

      On your last point. This will likely be my last year. I think in previous years I've just let it rollover without much thought but given the cost of living crisis here in the UK things like this will be knocked on the head if the value isn't there.

      [–]tdubeauI used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I was in the same boat as you regarding transparency, but I've come to appreciate their side of this as I'm seeing the same problem on multiple clubs/ vinyl subscription services.

      They aren't getting firm timelines or commitments with the current delays. They simply don't have information to share right now and there's not a lot they can do about it. If they provide an estimate and it doesn't come through, people get pissed. If they email just to say "still delayed, no news" people get pissed. It's out of their hands at this point and they are dependent on others. I've come to terms with the fact they have done their part and we will hear from them when they have news, "we are still waiting" updates are just unnecessary for me at this point.

      I totally agree they could provide more visibility on the website and actually use it as an opportunity to build hype. It must be frustrating answering emails on it over and over.

      [–]TimmonsInc -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      Everyone complaining about more updates of the pressing/shipping process for the vinyl are kinda silly.

      You're just gonna get emails that say, "still waiting..." Once its in the queue, you're kinda at the plants mercy. Plus this isn't a 4AD pressing (I'm sure 4AD has a little more leverage or at least windows for production at certain plants), this is an independent release. thats kinda lowest rung on the ladder. Plus its probably not a massive run like a real album would be.

      I know its frustrating waiting on this stuff, but IDK what more CT could do here.

      [–]Unlucky-Effective-70 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      I disagree a little here. I actually run online band merchandise shop. We have had some vinyl delays ourselves. Even when we don’t know what’s going on an email that says ‘we understand the frustration and that even though we have no updates we are chasing all the time’ actually goes a long way. Sometimes even no news, is good enough. The key to good customer service is regular comms and to not have customers chase you.

      [–]TimmonsInc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Thats fair.

      Personally, I feel like their communication has been sufficient (vs another fan club i'm a part of that generally gives zero communication), and if you buy enough vinyl, you kinda have an idea of what the time line is they are working with. When we it the fall and they go a few weeks without updates, then I'd start getting concerned. But I know from buying experience, its a 9 month window in 2022 and we are just finishing up month 8.

      [–]bitternmangerIn the city you hated -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

      1. While I don't feel that they were clear about this in the beginning, and shipping Year 1 so quickly probably gave people a distorted idea about how quickly future Years would ship, they have since clarified, multiple times, that the vinyl doesn't go into production until the current Year closes or is close to closing.
      2. If you're checking your email, following CT on social media, or reading this Reddit, then you're going to have a good idea when there's a contest on. I usually see their post on Instagram before I check my email. Sometimes I see a screenshot posted here before I look at Instagram or check my email.
      3. When CT first started, they posted a lot of old merch- posters, vinyls, shirts, etc... I was able to pick up the TWFM boxset for cheap. Same with a TSODITD/ GP blue 7". CT members were the only people who had dibs. Merch is one of those things that once it's gone, it's gone.
      4. They did this too. Again, back in 2018 when the band was on road and CT had just started, I was able to attend soundchecks in Raleigh and Asheville. Great experience, less than 15 or 16 people at the Raleigh one and less than 30 at the Asheville. I got to hear them check 'Lucky You' in Raleigh before playing it that night.

      [–]JKay96[S] 10 points11 points  (3 children)

      Appreciate your points, but all the things you said were in the past. It's a rolling service with a fairly pricey fee (especially for us international fans), so it shouldn't be resting on the laurels of the past. The competitions should be more easy to enter and more frequent. And I understand that when merch is gone it's gone, but again, you're referencing a sale that happened a long time ago.