top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]Shinikage1 1386 points1387 points  (63 children)

If the protesters would just stand there and get shot like good citizens, they wouldn't have to worry about the police escalating to more violent tactics.

[–]Ihfsa 413 points414 points  (29 children)

Exactly because the only good citizen is a dead citizen /s

[–]VetOfThePsychicWars 174 points175 points  (19 children)

Give the cops SOME credit.

Terrorized and compliant is good enough for them too.

[–]gargle_myload 75 points76 points  (18 children)

So long as they have qualified immunity

"I feared for my life"

[–]FlighingHigh 42 points43 points  (7 children)

From now on the response to this should be.

"Good. It'll keep you humble. You aren't the only one with a gun, trigger finger, and families in the world. Fall in or leave your badge and gun."

[–]HertzDonut1001 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Like all those Minneapolis cops filing for PTSD disability. "Now you know how it feels to feel completely helpless in the face of an apparently unstoppable force in a situation you have no way of knowing the outcome to. Welcome to black America."

[–]FlighingHigh 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Not quite. They still walked through the door at the end of the day. Definitely the closest they've gotten to black America anyway.

I mean as close as you can be when your profession is called out for abuse of power, responds by abusing its power, then throwing a hissy fit at the idea they should be held accountable and not allowed to slaughter people unchecked in the streets and attempt to file for federal benefits paid by tax payer dollars for what happened at their job paid by tax payer dollars after the tax payers got tired of seeing fellow tax payers murdered.

[–]raddrobb67 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Citizen "I feared for my life so yes I shot the cop." Consequences. Life in prison even possible death sentence. What a wonderful country we live in.

[–]Chip_not_Chip 9 points10 points  (2 children)

And in some states, an offense against a cop is an automatic step up as far as offense grading goes. So not only do they hide behind qualified immunity, but they sound like overgrown babies testifying to their “substantial bodily injury” after they tased a suspect for the third time. GTFOH.

[–]StewpidMunkee 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I never understood why cops found guilty don't automatically get a double maximum sentence for the crime

[–]Polk41341 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because the government will have to admit they fuck up, and they can't do that.

[–]HAHGoTtEm_BDNjr 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Qualified immunity extends WAY beyond “fear of their lives”

What they actually say is “ope, thought I was aloud to do that” and then he gets immunity because he allegedly didn’t know

I’m In a case about being forcefully cathetered against my will, officer says in a deposition: “what do you mean? I was trained to do exactly this!”

And then we ask the police chief and he says “I absolutely didn’t train any of my officers to do this.“

So the officers have qualified immunity because he “thought he was trained to do that”

[–]ttystikk 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That's apparently what they think.

Despicable. It's time we took our country back.

[–]Kaining 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, looking at the native american citizen that were there first...


[–]jpastore 18 points19 points  (0 children)

The signs should read: the terrorists are shooting the unarmed.

[–]RatCity617 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the beatings will continue until morale improves

[–]ZacHorton 1312 points1313 points  (187 children)

I’m pretty sure all the fascist comments in this thread are one person. Bro, sorry you got rejected to be a cop because of your psych evaluation. Let. It. Go.

[–]Te_La_lengueteo 463 points464 points  (86 children)

Let's not pretend that the majority of current PO haven't failed at least one psych evaluation. I know plenty of officers that have failed 5+ times and then miraculously pass it on their 6th try. Did they somehow change their personality/character? No, they just got better at taking the test.

[–]BikerJedi 113 points114 points  (20 children)

No, they just got better at taking the test.

To be fair, that is true of all government run testing, starting with standardized testing in our schools.

[–]Muffalo_Herder 51 points52 points  (13 children)

All *American testing.

Some places have functional governments, believe it or not.

[–]AmadeusSquared 51 points52 points  (8 children)

Some places have functional governments, believe it or not.

Ehh I'm not so sure about that. Sounds pretty socialist to me.

[–]Duthos 9 points10 points  (0 children)

'functioning' only relative to the rest.

this capitalism thing is pretty close to complete failure.

[–]kwanijml 3 points4 points  (0 children)

*better functioning...not necessarily functional.

[–]BikerJedi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I should have clarified that I meant American. I realize how dysfunctional our government is.

[–]OrangeAdventure 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I knew kids in high school that were taking the ACT in eighth grade. That way by the time their junior and senior year came they were REALLY prepared for it

[–]BariSaxGuy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Actually a good start if you can afford it. Really puts education inequities into perspective.

[–]churchcomer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Standardized testing children in fucking math and social studies is not even remotely comparable to a psych eval for a gun-toting law enforcement position, my dude.

[–]Tullerull 16 points17 points  (53 children)

So it's like IQ tests then. I consistently gained 5 points for every retake I have done, and I'm dumb as shit, I am just good at recognizing patterns.

[–]JObscura 22 points23 points  (47 children)

It's almost as if IQ tests are largely classist and racist pseudoscience and most of cognition "science" in general is just modern day phrenology.

[–]Tullerull 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Basically, yeah. IQ test doesn't prove shit by itself.

[–]YungYaboi 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Uh it does prove something. It proves you're good at recognizing patterns. That's all an IQ test really is.

[–]TillyFukUpFairy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I knew a guynwith serves mental health problems who should have been hospitalized longterm. He never was because he knew what to say to make the doctors think he was doing well

[–]GustavoFromAsdf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Like physical punishment. Their behaviour didn't improve, they just learn how to avoid the punishment

[–]NRMusicProject 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it's pretty sad he failed badly enough that even the police don't want him.

[–]FlighingHigh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't need to get better when they only observe it as a formality.

[–]Oldkingcole225 20 points21 points  (12 children)

Chances are he wasn’t rejected. Cops love psychos these days.

[–]BKowalewski 12 points13 points  (11 children)

Not just these days. My grandmother three quarters of a century ago said cops and soldiers are criminals turned inside out

[–]Obscured-By_Clouds 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Let. It. Go.

New fascist theme song?

 The snow glows white on the mountain tonight
 Not a footprint to be seen
 A kingdom of isolation
 And it looks like I'm the queen

[–]TheUn5een 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Definitely glows white

[–]vaids97 60 points61 points  (56 children)

Pretty sure cops got rejected from college and the super market job which explains the laughable choice in career. Cops are such talentless pieces of shit that they stand at the side of a road measuring speed like bitches tryna be some glorified hall monitor.

[–]VetOfThePsychicWars 52 points53 points  (6 children)

They didn't get rejected from a damn thing. They see the chance to be in a government-sponsored gang and the chance to bully, assault, and murder without retaliation and jump at it. Psychopaths have no designs on working for the supermarket.

[–]NBB7 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Tbf they are generally too stupid and ill tempered to work any sort of normal job though, whether they tried to find one or not. Many of these idiots would have nowhere to go without police work, which is yet another reason for them to be scared of reform, many won’t be cut out for the only job they can do if we actually fix the police issues

[–]nezmito 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It's stuff like this that makes me believe the market fundamentalists have it backwards. If people weren't so worried that they would lose a decent compensation package (pay, health, etc.) , it would be much easier to keep good people and fire bad ones. So you're not cut out for being a cop, that's ok here's this other job with similar comp you would be perfect for.

[–]Iamlamarodom 19 points20 points  (0 children)

My friend says his brother is and always has been an abusive asshole and he is doing amazing with the border patrol. I remember hearing about this when we were 12-13. Here we are almost 15 years later

[–]tranny___slayer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Psych evaluation? Lol...

[–][deleted] 414 points415 points  (217 children)

It's insanity that anyone thinks the cops are good

Edit: Bootlickers are MAD I said this lol. Go say hi to them down there so they stop trying to slide in my DMs lol

[–]shroomlover0420 166 points167 points  (34 children)

I think they just literally cant handle the truth. They always thought help was 3 keytones away

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (30 children)

I remember being a pasty lil kid and still not thinking that.

Cops got that internal danger sense going just like church employees did even then and thankfully I knew to listen to it

[–]shroomlover0420 58 points59 points  (26 children)

It honestly took me witnessing over a dozen incidents in which the cops arrived to fuck up the people who needed help. Its still hard for me to wrap my head around how they were born human. I have gotten to know a few of them on friendly terms and they were shitty people all around.

[–]unkoshoyu 44 points45 points  (23 children)

Ideally, people shouldn't be nervous around cops if they were actually there to "Protect & Serve" (I know that's a propaganda slogan) the people. But they're not. People get nervous because they have a gun, can legally kill you, and even plant "evidence" on you and ruin your life in virtually no time. Judges are very commonly in favor of the cops in practically any court case: and when an arresting cop doesn't show up to your court hearing, they just move it to another day. Guess what happens when you don't show up? Punishment.

I remember being optimistic when I first heard about cops being mandated to wear body-cams (can't remember which city or state it started in), which I thought "yeah, this would be a great deterrent to keep these fucks in check." Nope, no repercussions for having them conveniently turned off even when they're required, or finding a loophole of "well, technically, I was wearing it, it just wasn't on."

[–]grimey493 11 points12 points  (21 children)

I don't get this at all. Here in New Zealand the cops are on average very helpful and approachable.they don't wear guns but have access to them in the locked boot of their car. However if an incident happens and you have to go to court.If the police don't show up or their witness's and any evidence pertaining to the case isn't available to the judge the case is automatically thrown out. What is it about american cops ? On the cops shows they mostly seem very patient and never very murdery.

[–]unkoshoyu 10 points11 points  (2 children)

To be honest, I still don't really get it either, but the more I learn about our system, the more sickend I am of it. It's all deeply rooted systemic corruption. The lack of accountability for their actions/crimes (see: Breonna Taylor's murderers still walking around freely) attracts people with psychopathic tendencies to pursue a career in law enforcement.

When people say our police is a state-sanctioned gang, it's not that far from truth. Police protect their own, and they do not treat whistleblowers/"snitches" very kindly, and more often than not receive much much harsher repercussions for reporting another cop's misconduct than to actually do misdeeds.

I would recommend watching this recent Dave Chappelle set on youtube, he goes in-depth on our current events involving police brutality and can highlight their corruption better than I ever could:


edit: to address our presentation of cops on television shows, especially "Cops", it's usually just edited to give it that image. It is not an accurate depiction of their common procedures and widespread misconduct.

[–]tanager- 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the police system was enacted only AFTER slavery. our justice system before that was basically hanging people we didnt like. once america “freed” the slaves, they manifested the police system because white people were scared of black people seeking revenge

[–]Ynigmatik 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The cops on TV have always seemed more like PIs or watered down detectives to me

[–]drkoxiii 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Politicians want the police to be completely free of any responsibility, hyper inflating their egos by pretending they are American soldiers coupled with an orange, racist hobbit with self conscious issues green lighting fascism while calling anti fascism "terrorists" and you get where we are now

[–]TiggleTutt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is it about american cops ? On the cops shows they mostly seem very patient and never very murdery.

That's for TV. They pick the most respectable and patient officers for the camera people run with for a reason.

[–]casfacto 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It all has to do with empathy. Some people have it, others do not. I'd wager most cops do not have it, and it enables them to act the way they do.

[–]HertzDonut1001 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It took me a long time of never once feeling safer in the presence of an officer. Usually less safe.

[–]Jrook 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I think it's more insidious, I think they believe lower classes are getting uppity

[–]JSRambo 20 points21 points  (25 children)

The thing is, the most accurate description of cops is "state sanctioned violence." Reasonable people see the problem with state sanctioned violence against its own citizens, but there are many who are perfectly fine with it even (and perhaps actually especially) when it's crystallized that way.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The insight and thought you put into your comment made it worth dealing with all the AverageRedditors in here

[–]JSRambo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cheers. Spread the word in kind when you see the opportunity.

[–]CIMARUTA 43 points44 points  (35 children)

Its because these morons don't realize the difference between rioters and protesters. They have been brainwashed to assume that all the protesters are synonymous with rioters and looters that "want to destroy the city/country"

[–]perfecthashbrowns 46 points47 points  (17 children)

Cop does something bad: ah, just bad apples, y'all! Nothing to worry about.

Protester does something bad: RIOTS! TERRORISTS! SEND THE FEDS!

[–]lotm43 16 points17 points  (1 child)

A window was broken and some property was taken? We should round up every protestor, line them up infront of a wall and shoot them

[–]HaesoSR 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is obviously satire but it's wild how this is functionally the argument of everyone who thinks .001% of people on the street doing anything criminal means the police can deny everyone else their first amendment rights and brutalize anyone who refuses to comply or even anyone trying to comply but not doing so fast enough for the tastes of the fascists in blue.

[–]HughBrandity 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Even the actual rioters are 100x better than the cops

[–]HertzDonut1001 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Most of the rioters aren't deliberately hurting people physically. Many of the police are.

[–]ElGato-TheCat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And police knew that it was right wing extremists who were the real threat, hijacking the peaceful protests and destroying property.


After the federal police left Portland, it became peaceful again.

[–]Recognizant 14 points15 points  (13 children)

I tried to reply to someone in your comment chain below, but their post was deleted before I could send it, so I hope you don't mind if I post it here for posterity, as it took me a bit to write, and might help more cleanly deflect from those who wish to lob criticism your way. I hope it's okay.

This is for you, /u/BigRyano (But it was also for me, as well).

I don’t understand.

I will try to help explain.

You people claim

Does this person claim? Or is this a 'generalisation or stereotype?' This is an appeal to hypocrisy, but the poster may not hold this opinion, so you're arguing with the idea that because they're speaking out against police, they also hold other specific opinions on different topics. This may not be accurate, your mileage may vary.

Even if it is true, it's a terrible way to frame an argument.

But, on to the logical process that likely led them to this conclusion. I'm going to break down the argument into a series of points so that we can get a better understanding of how this opinion was formed.

The following is assumed to be true of the majority of police officers in the United States:

  • Police are employed and supported by the government.
  • Police hold a monopoly on sanctioned violence.
  • Police are as legally allowed to lie as anyone else.
  • Police operate with qualified immunity.
  • Police have the job protections of a strong union.
  • Police have investigatory authority over themselves.
  • Police have no legal requirement towards the well-being of citizens.
  • Police testimony holds greater weight than others in a courtroom.
  • Police carry lethal weapons.

This is the base structure for the ideas that follow. There are going to be officers for whom this isn't true. A Mayberry officer might not carry a lethal weapon, or have a union. If the town is 250 people, and there's only one police officer, there isn't much need for one. But in those small town scenarios, democracy offers more direct tools, and many of these problems do not surface, due to methods of community policing.

However, most police officers are not employed in small towns, but in large cities. And in large cities, like the ones where these protests have been frequent, these are all common issues. At first, the issues seem to be reasonable. Workers should be able to enjoy the protections of a union. Police officers have a need to defend themselves, some violence is occasionally necessary in order to reduce unsanctioned violence. But as these begin to interact, we can begin to see some problems developing.

  • Police have investigatory authority over themselves, and
  • Police are allowed to lie.

This makes it difficult to hold police accountable for things. Two days ago, the NYPD tweeted out that plainclothes officers making an arrest of a protester into an unmarked van were pelted by 'rocks and bottles'. Video evidence directly contradicts that official statement. So the police were caught in a lie, and individuals may wish to hold them accountable for that. The methods for holding someone accountable in society are threefold, but problematic:

  • Police hold a monopoly on sanctioned violence,
  • Police operate with qualified immunity, and
  • Police have the job protections of a strong union.

These are, curiously enough, the three methods that our society uses to punish wrongdoing. As a society, we employ violence by arresting and jailing individuals. We use legal proceedings, civil or criminal, in order to determine the innocent or guilt of an individual, and we socially organize to remove an individual from a position of power that has been misused.

Because of these five statements, it is difficult to hold individuals accountable from outside of the organization. It is complicated further by the sixth statement:

  • Police are employed and supported by the government.

Police work directly with the district attorneys that typically decide whether or not to file charges, which creates a situation known as a conflict of interest. In this case, the district attorney has a conflict of interest regarding their already open cases which require police support in order to successfully continue, and help ensure the public peace, and the interest to hold a police officer accountable for potential wrongdoings.

To further complicate matters, unionized police forces are organized, so they can execute slowdowns, or sabotage district attorney cases if individuals among them are being held accountable to their actions in ways that the police as a whole deem 'unfair'.

So, it is very difficult to hold police accountable for their own actions. Much of the structure of the current system is in place to protect police officers no matter what they do. If the officers are doing good things, then it helps them stay away from frivolous lawsuits which might take up a great deal of their time. If the officers are not doing good things, then it protects them in a position of public trust when they may be committing acts of corruption or violence.

Which takes us to:

  • Police have no legal requirement towards the well-being of citizens.
  • Police testimony holds greater weight than others in a courtroom.
  • Police carry lethal weapons.

These are the methods of corruption that police can employ. A police officer can legally fire their weapon when they feel their life is in danger. This is a wide metric that is poorly defined at the best of times, but because their testimony is given greater weight, they can typically receive no punishment. It is difficult to prove a 'feeling' that someone with greater weight had in a courtroom is wrong beyond a reasonable doubt.

Police have no legal requirement towards the well-being of citizens. They cannot be held accountable if they do not care, or if they end up ruining an individual's life, unless it is in a very specific way that gets around qualified immunity. Carrying lethal weapons opens up the inability to care to a wide range of potential, immediate consequences that lie outside what our judicial system is prepared to accept. Our judicial system is designed to operate under the assumption that an individual is innocent until proven guilty, but if a police operates outside that assumption by shooting a suspect before the trial begins, there are few mechanisms to hold that officer accountable for an extrajudicial killing.

The weapons involved, and the weight of testimony involved in often inconsistent stories means that police officers are in a unique position to make errors - deliberate or intentional - that can cost people their lives, and in doing so, face no repercussions for these errors due to the protections involved, and their own ability to internally evade consequences.

These are the problems inherent with most of the police structures in United States.

So, what makes police 'not good'?

They support the system. Their voice carries extra weight. If police wanted to establish an outside agency to provide oversight, they could lobby for it tomorrow. They could argue against teargas. They could request reasonable reform for these systems that would provide avenues for actual accountability.

They don't, presumably because they want these extra protections. Either explicitly, by fighting for such protections, or implicitly, by not speaking out about these problems while being employed by such a union, all officers are equally culpable for the individuals who commit excessive force, who give false testimony, who actively work against the public peace.

Instead, when police officers speak out, they are actively pushed out from the in-group. Here's an article from the 24th quoting Rep. Anthony Nolan, D-New London from CT:

“I’ve been followed from police officers to let me know I’m still part of the union, to let me know that I should be careful, and to let me know that I should watch what I say,” Nolan said. “I speak loudly to police officers that are doing good. We are proud of you. We like what you are doing in our communities. But we have bad apples.”

Police officers will not be held accountable even for open intimidation tactics unless the laws are changed, unless the structure is offered. And they can either be a part of reforming that structure to establish a more just society, or they can wait for the individuals on the street to pressure their government more strongly than the police union is, and they will see change that way.

Until then, whether they're intimidating protesters, as in the OP, or politicians, as in the article, as long as they aren't acknowledging the problems, and tacitly supporting these tactics via union membership, they're absolutely not being a force for good.

I hope that clears it up for you.

[–]MissMeowster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is an amazing comment on the issue of policing. Thank you very much and I will be saving this! (;

[–]jrHIGHhero 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I can think in no time in my life were calling the cops made anything better. Not even when MY house was broken into...

[–]dangshnizzle 186 points187 points  (20 children)

So much this. Cops want to turn things into riots. It's a tactic. If the news can call them riots in the morning it means any force used can be justified in the eyes of the masses. They know the best way to turn something heated but still peaceful into a riot is to do the very thing they're being protested for - excessive force

[–]vlasvilneous 57 points58 points  (1 child)

Yup, this is correct. It is violence first, politics second. Notice how with George Floyd and others they put out their records quickly in an attempt to justify the homicide they committed.

They have no morals, and that is the problem.

[–]B1ind_Spot 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Let’s not forget just who they work for. This problem goes right to the top.

[–]VerminLordTaka 24 points25 points  (7 children)

Except you know, they don't do that in other western nations. Especially not where I am. American cops* are the issue. Not the Police in general. You lot are just fucked up, time to own that fact. President who thinks COVID is a hoax, Police who shoot on sight, no form of universal healthcare and a minimum wage similar to South East Asian countries.

Land of the free my ass. What a shithole.

[–]HaesoSR 15 points16 points  (3 children)

The police definitely started and instigated violence in France and Bolivia against protestors.

Police in all countries are the manifestation of the monopoly of violence of the state. The only reason your police aren't attacking protestors is because you don't have protestors threatening the status quo there, if that changes whether they'll engage in violence against protestors will change too.

The fact that American police just engage in violence for fun at the drop of the hat just makes them worse than normal but it isn't the only problem.

[–]Nuka-Kraken 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You forgot the fact that our government is run my money hungry, easily bribed, corrupt politicians and our government is just a fake shell of a democracy over a plutocracy.

[–]intangibleTangelo 12 points13 points  (3 children)

We might benefit from using the term nonviolent rather than peaceful. People confuse the word peaceful with tranquility, but the point is that these are not violent riots. They are nonviolent protests.

[–]TiggleTutt 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Nonlethal Less-lethal protesting.

[–]TheObstruction 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Less lethal...but still potentially lethal. /s (not really)

[–]Reus958 60 points61 points  (9 children)

Body armor is looking like a better, if not necessary purchase. Though some authoritarians in congress want to ban a completely defensive technology.

[–]BikerJedi 23 points24 points  (7 children)

Spend a decent amount. $400 on my plate carrier. The plates don't cost so much: AR500 has some great plates. Do not buy some cheap mall cop plate carrier - it will fall apart on you when you need it.

[–]TangoMyCharlie 18 points19 points  (1 child)

AR500 may be good for protesting because less lethals still suck but at least it's solid steel and has a lot of inertia...but if you're actually going to be getting shot at you're going to want ceramics and not AR500

[–]TheLegendDevil 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Getting shot with AR500s and spalling will make your day pretty bad.

[–]_V3rt1g0_ 7 points8 points  (3 children)

AR500s have an anti-spalling coating which traps the frag inside itself. The plates are also curved for better contour to the body. They are rated IIIA and can only be penetrated by a .50 cal. I have seen a video torture test of these plates and just don't understand the hate on this thread. Short of the 3.6 kg weight, I don't see any downside to them.

Edit : I speak to the "Spartan AR500" plates, specifically, as that's what I saw.

[–]TheLegendDevil 4 points5 points  (2 children)

They are rated Level III, not IIIa, thats mostly for soft body armour. Also, their anti spalling is giga crap and they weigh soooo much, a shooters cut medium is at 9 pounds 11 oz, meanwhile my cheap ceramics NIJ 4 weigh like 8.3 oz.

[–]Zanzako 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you're attending protests, check your state laws regarding body armor as defined here. Most don't allow it if you're committing a crime like unlawful assembly. Felons aren't legally allowed to have body armor in most states.

An alternative to body armor I've found effective is wearing paper armor under my clothes. It's bulky and uncomfortable but has been surprisingly effective against rubber rounds. It will be useless against live rounds. Since paper armor is ineffective against gunfire, it shouldn't run afoul of body armor laws. Unless the courts decide that rubber riot contol munitions qualify as gunfire, but I haven't seen any examples of that yet.

Take care with other armoring concerns - ballistic glasses/goggles and cups if you're sporting male genitals are important. Don't want to lose your important bits!

[–]GlumExcitement9 24 points25 points  (7 children)

Cops should be PROTECTORS, not WARRIORS!

[–]mth0322 403 points404 points  (149 children)

When will Trump realize that he can never win with force??? The people will rise up to meet tyranny no matter hard hard you try to crack down on peaceful protesters....

[–]TheNerdyMupton 172 points173 points  (89 children)

That was a lesson we taught the world 200+ years ago.

Then again, Trump is a slow learner.

[–]TypeRumad 71 points72 points  (76 children)

But 200+ years ago teargas, bullets (rubber or not), laser pointers, tasers, riot shields, night vision goggles, and IEDs didnt exist.

[–]coleisawesome3 65 points66 points  (46 children)

Neither did bullet proof armor, face shields, and metal detectors. Offense and defense always evolve together. Also, as long as we have the 2nd ammendment we outnumber them 100 to 1

[–]bluntdogcamelman 34 points35 points  (39 children)

Some cities have more civilians than our entire military personnel list.

The military has 1.3 million active duty personnel. New York City has 8.3 million civilians. America in total has 328 million people. That's a lot more than 100 to 1

[–]MarsupialBob 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Only about 30% of Americans own guns though, which drops it down to ~99 million. So that's roughly 100:1 if the entire population of armed civilians rises up against the entire military.

Roughly 40% of self-identified conservatives own guns. Roughly 18% of self-identified liberals own guns.

The reality is that the people who are standing up against police brutality are, at best outnumbered 2:1 in the event of real, legitimate insurrection. Even that assumes that both the military and the police split along the same lines as the larger population, when the reality is that those organizations tend to lean right wing.

The far right is absolutely capable of stamping out an insurrection violently if they try. Even if doing so alienates a sizeable percentage of their current supporters, they would still have a numbers advantage.

The whole 'insurrection doctrine' of protecting against government overreach only works if the people who are lined up against the government are the ones that are armed. And that's just not the reality in the US right now. Arm up. Get training, go to a range and practice. If you're counting on the second amendment being a legitimate defense against tyranny, you need to be a part of that defense.




(Complaints here are not specifically directed at the post I'm replying to, but at the general trend of left-wing groups protesting against armed violence by the State and against civilian gun ownership. Pick one of those two to protest against, because you can only have one of them.)



[–]heili 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Only 30% of Americans are willing to answer a telephone poll and state that they own guns.

There is no way I would ever answer a poll about that and state that I own guns.

[–]TheObstruction 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Only 99 million people own guns? Well, with those numbers, might as well roll over now.

[–]EASam 26 points27 points  (19 children)

Yes, but if it came down to it they're not fighting one to one. Tulsa had bombs dropped on it. Hell, the cops bombed Philly in the 80s. There might be more of us but unless there are a lot of 2A guys with Anti-aircraft guns to take out planes and predator drones...

[–]slapnuttz 30 points31 points  (11 children)

If the last set of wars America has been involved with have shown us anything it’s that we aren’t good at dealing with guerrilla insurgencies.

[–]TheMadPyro 13 points14 points  (6 children)

When you can just shoot those who protest the war it becomes much easier to increase average moral

[–]slapnuttz 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Fair. I saw an argument early on in the protests asking that the military be brought in because they at least have rules of engagement

[–]ericwn 13 points14 points  (1 child)

What an interestingly backward way of looking at the invasion of American cities by Americans.

[–]perturabo_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That worked well in Kent State.

[–]Reus958 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The military wouldn't be as quick to do that as police. The national guards would be like to stick with popular sentiment in their area. It's not that simple.

[–]TheOneCorrectOpinion 2 points3 points  (1 child)

No, we're very good at it. The public dropped support for the wars in question and that eventually led to us pulling back, but really, it's not an answer of if with the US military, only when

[–]TheObstruction 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The moment the US military starts shooting civilians on the regular is the moment nearly all public support is lost.

Yes, I know it's happened before, but only in isolated incidents that were heavily scrutinized. I'm sure people will post plenty of individual incidents trying to prove this wrong, but actually looking at them will almost certainly show a separation of time/distance/activity from each other. I'm unaware of incidents where the military attacked and continued attacking later during the same set of circumstances. That's why cops have all the military hardware now.

[–]coleisawesome3 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You can’t govern rubble. Losing a few cities would be worth it to get freedom. They literally can’t kill us all, they lose all their power that way

[–]chaun2[🍰] 5 points6 points  (12 children)

Military is on our side. Hence the wall of Vets protecting the wall of Moms

Cops are outnumbered 6:1 just in Vets alone

[–]MyNameIsEthanNoJoke 19 points20 points  (6 children)

the military is absolutely not on the side of the protestors. individual vets could be, just like individual ex cops could be. but the police and the military both serve the exact same purpose, protect & advance capital and enforce the oppressive rule of the state. police just usually do it inside the border and military usually outside

[–]chaun2[🍰] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

The bigger difference is that the military has ROE, the police have none

Also police were set up to protect capital. The military had to be twisted into that, it didn't take long, but that was not the original purpose

[–]ericwn 6 points7 points  (3 children)

More importantly, IMO, the military teaches you to dehumanize enemy combatants a bit, but it reaaaaly teaches you to value your fellow soldiers for their capability, no matter the color of their skin. Cops absolutely do not. They just care that you don't fight the system. And probably look down on their black members too.

[–]chaun2[🍰] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Also the only cops that seem to be held accountable for anything, commit the crime of turning in their fellow officers thugs

[–]icingdeth 1 point2 points  (4 children)

even if they are not, i would like to remind you exactly what 15 or so people can do to an individual with knives and hand tools. Mind the violent footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNqBLmJLOJU

[–]chaun2[🍰] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That was my point. Anyone in the military knows that a fight between crowd vs a unit, the crowd wins. Sure the unit might kill 15 people each before the crowd gets there, but once the unit is overrun, the unit is dead

Hence all the deescalation training and strict ROE

[–]icingdeth 1 point2 points  (2 children)

fair enough sorry i misread.Keep in mind I hope that it doesn't come to a violent action by either side, but my hopefulness is starting to wane.

[–]Falcrist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also, as long as we have the 2nd ammendment we outnumber them 100 to 1

Depends on who "them" is.

[–]Reus958 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What sucks is that we have two authoritarian, right wing parties. One wants to use the second amendment to uphold the status quo and the other wants to wildly restrict it so we can't oppose them.

[–]stickswithsticks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but they have tanks and jets with missiles. Have you seen most 2A people? Okay, unfair slight, but they still have tanks and shit.

[–]BossRedRanger 6 points7 points  (3 children)

And still the nation left black people in chains and women couldn’t vote.

Imagine if in the centuries after founding this nation, the promises of the forefathers had actually applied to everyone equally? We’d have colonized the moon and Mars right now.

[–]shroomlover0420 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Fuck I guess that I must have missed it too? You're not talking about the american revolution are you?

[–]jaspersgroove 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Thee American revolution was rich business owners bitching about taxes, what we are doing now is a little different.

[–]SerjoHlaaluDramBero 24 points25 points  (2 children)


This is a protest against police brutality. We will continue protesting after November.

[–]Supes_man 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Making this a trump thing is a distraction, it’s going to continue after he’s gone just like it existed before he was in.

[–]Janus_Grayden 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's really been the absolute best way for them to prove that the protests are legitimate and necessary.

[–]Dubandubs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Expecting an old piece of shit to learn new tricks when his entire mo is being on the wrong side of history and appealing to the lowest instincts of his base is a bit much

[–]jpastore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That assumes he can learn

[–]Darktidemage 3 points4 points  (0 children)

lol @ thinking his goal is to "win".

His goals are simple. hurt. weaken. and divide.

Trump's ONE and ONLY life goal is to get some more few years in before Putin releases the pedo rape tapes.

[–]RELAXcowboy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I get Trump's a racist POS but other than the Feds isn't the police a local issue? City/state Mayor/Governor level thing?

[–]Arcane_Alchemist_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The way the US legal system works, the only tangible way to change the states is to create new federal laws, and enforce them.

One or two states with good representatives may change in response to protests, but politicians are notoriously bad at getting things done, for alot of reasons. Left to their own devices they'll continue their negligence. If the state government worked well on its own, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now as a country.

In the past, the executive branch (the president) did it's job eventually in hearing what the american people said during these sorts of protests, and forcing change countrywide. Our current president has decided to ignore us instead, and sent the national guard in to silence us, violently. It won't work, and if this abuse continues there won't be a united states of america much longer.

[–]oddmarauder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We knelt on the ground they knelt on our necks

[–]OriginalSFWname 184 points185 points  (55 children)

Wow this comment section is full of bootlickers already.

[–]Pardusco 91 points92 points  (43 children)

Right wing morons brigading. Useless pieces of shit

[–]VSWR_on_Christmas 69 points70 points  (31 children)

They have to give the appearance of having greater numbers or risk allowing people to realize that they're just a small vocal minority. They know their message is wrong or untenable, but if they repeat it often and loud enough it just becomes fact.

They also love to muddy the waters by creating new definitions for words, making debate impossible, as they are arguing from their invented definition; dismantling and warping of language allows them to prevent an honest exchange of ideas and gives them the appearance of having the upper hand.

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

Jean-Paul Sartre

[–]Pardusco 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm saving this comment, thank you.

[–]VSWR_on_Christmas 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No problemo. Spread it far and wide ;)

[–]MarsupialBob 15 points16 points  (4 children)

The far right is supported by a substantial minority (40-45% of the country if Trump's approval ratings are anything to go by), and that minority represents an overwhelming majority of gun owners. The police (and to a lesser degree the military) also lean in favor of that minority.

they're just a small vocal minority. They know their message is wrong or untenable, but if they repeat it often and loud enough it just becomes fact.

Complacency around fascist movements is historically deadly. The sentiment that they are a 'small vocal minority' is comforting, but it downplays how powerful and how incredibly dangerous the far right is in this country.

[–]VSWR_on_Christmas 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yeah, support numbers are concerning, to say the least. I think most of that support is due to lack of information or straight disinformation - but either way, it's still support.

I absolutely recognize the danger - 30% support is all that is necessary for a fascist movement to be successful. We are very much headed down a bad path if trends continue.

[–]fungah 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This was a good comment. This kind of stark comment on the reality of the situation is important. Critical thinking, even about things you support or don't, is important.

Describing the enemy as both weak and powerful is one of those "aspects of fascism" things I keep bandied around.

The comment before yours would fall into that camp I think.

The goal for discourse should be to be reasonable and actually discuss things, and even parts of a viewpoint you agree with can breed dangerous groupthink.

[–]feelings_arent_facts 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is why you MUST fight fire with fire on this one. When Hilary did her whole “when they go low, we go high!” shit, I knew it was over.

Intellectual debate exists in predefined rules. Mudslinging stomps all over those rules and uses those rules against you. You’re a fool if you think you can sniff your own farts to defeat this type of behavior.

[–]VetOfThePsychicWars 9 points10 points  (2 children)

The republican political ads that air non-stop here (Tennessee) are outright disgusting. One cunt is angrily attacking democrats for daring to attack Trump during a pandemic and time of rioting. Another is attacking black women for having abortions while comparing people who want to defund the police to violent anarchists who will attack you in your home and probably say bad things about Jesus. The depths that the entire party has sunk to since Eisenhower is just nauseating.

[–]Unadvisable 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well to be fair those are literally the same things conservatives said in the Eisenhower era too

[–]igbad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Russian bot farms are well coordinated. I think they get multiple memos daily on talking points. A lot of comments are almost copy paste.

[–]Archercrash 2 points3 points  (3 children)

The Trump people are human weather vanes, they change direction constantly depending on what dear leader says on that particular day.

[–]kkoiso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My dad went from "Coronavirus is so bad China is digging mass graves" to "it's just a flu" in one Trump speech, lol.

[–]ttystikk 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The police violate the law, who polices them?

WE THE PEOPLE. It's time we held them accountable!

[–]EmperorOfCanada 39 points40 points  (1 child)

The key to understanding cops is how they are a predatory gang. Basically paid bullies. There are a few departments out there with leadership preventing this toxic culture, but not very many.

They don't pick on people because of race so much as racially minorities typically have trouble getting the system to protect them, thus they are the weak as far as the cops are concerned and easy prey.

There is a wonderful video where the cop pulls over a black woman who works in some senior government legal role. You can just hear him panicking about his career. Had she been a cleaning woman or some such he might have even had her get out of the vehicle and put her in cuff "for her own protection".

Predators, every last one of them.

And the whole, "few bad apples." total BS. If a cop is good and another cop is bad then the good one would arrest the bad one. To stand by and not do their jobs protecting and serving makes them just as bad as the worst in their department.

[–]olyfc 18 points19 points  (0 children)

A few bad apples spoil the bunch. ACAB

[–]ZKXX 24 points25 points  (1 child)

To heck with the police

[–]Edewede 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Heck The Police!

[–]TheMightyVegito 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Arm yourselves

[–]wonkey_monkey 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I'm not from the US and in the past I've looked on at what's come of the second amendment and it's most frothing defenders in dismay, but hell if this isn't exactly the time to be making the most of that right, even if only to make the police actually think twice once about what they're doing.

Where is the NRA right now, anyway?

[–]yy0b 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The 2A isn't just for conservatives and bootlickers!

[–]s0rtajustdrifting 115 points116 points  (6 children)

Not only are they escalating it, they are starting it.

[–]JonSnowTheBastid 63 points64 points  (5 children)

Literal cause of it.

[–]MaximumDestruction 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Cop riots aren’t riots because they are done by cops. Witness the tremendous size of my brain!

[–]ANTARIS251 7 points8 points  (1 child)

The good officers always end up giving up their badge after some time.

[–]armtheleft 40 points41 points  (24 children)

No matter how much the fascists escalate, they can never win. The people have the power and they have now realized this. There will be many battles fought, some with bloodshed, but in the end we will have peace and equality until the next fascist tries and the cycle repeats. Stay woke. Arm up and defend those who cannot defend themselves. Show the fascists they don't hold power over the people.

[–]MK_Ultrex 42 points43 points  (15 children)

You are very, very wrong in your belief that fascists can't win. Franco ruled Spain from 1939 to 1975 and his fascist dictatorship ended only because he died. The system was never completely dismantled. Salazar's regime ruled Portugal from 1932 to 1974, eventually toppled by a military coup that evolved in the carnation revolution.

I chose those two examples because they are relatively recent, involve first world countries and, most importantly, because said regimes still have supporters and their legacy persists.

Do not underestimate the popular support for fascism. It's not the radical neonazis that you must fear, it is the common people, the centrists, the "law and order" and "stability" crowd. It takes very little for them to become a majority supporting authoritarians.

[–]armtheleft 4 points5 points  (13 children)

You are very, very wrong in your belief that fascists can't win. Franco ruled Spain from 1939 to 1975 and his fascist dictatorship ended only because he died. The system was never completely dismantled.

Spain's constitution does not allow your normal, everyday citizen to own firearms. Spain has always been highly restrictive with firearms. Things tend to turn out differently when the people don't have the means to fight back.

Do not underestimate the popular support for fascism.

Preaching to the choir.

It's not the radical neonazis that you must fear, it is the common people, the centrists, the "law and order" and "stability" crowd. It takes very little for them to become a majority supporting authoritarians.

Correct. MLK understood these people were the largest roadblock when fighting for equality. Those are the people that need to feel the most pain if we want to see change happen.

[–]darkwarrior5500 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And when the people finally hit "fuck it" and start using equal force on them they'll whine about being targets of violence. ACAB.

[–]Verrence 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Oh great, this hit /r/all, so I assume 99% of the comments are going to be barely literate racist bootlicking.

Edit: Hey! I must be psychic.

[–]c1337138 4 points5 points  (2 children)

also attacking moms and kidnapping people

[–]pjarmes 5 points6 points  (2 children)

murcia is not the greatest country in the world any more

[–]Wotaworldtochange 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Damn truth. Stay strong

[–]Lefthandblack66 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Every night when I go to sleep. I have a good think to myself. And thank god that president trump is our great leader. I kiss the framed photo I have by my bedside. Then I kiss my mamas ashes. She died recently. COVID 19 the doctors said. I didn’t believe them. My president said it would go away. But all that went away was my mama. I’m gonna drink a cold natural light in her honor. Maybe fire off a few rounds. Life’s tough you know? You work every day at the old coal mine and pray to god above to save us. But he never helps. Can the president save us? I need help. Without my mamas disability checks I can’t make rent. Will trump bless me with a secondary stimuluscheck? I can only hope.

[–]Polk41341 3 points4 points  (1 child)

To say the cop is trying to prevent riot by stopping protest is ridiculous, people are allow to protest without being harassed. The only thing cop is supposed to do is maintain public safety and arresting people for crime, not throwing gas and shooting a crowd of people. That's like saying Nazi are right to put protestor in concentration camps because they didn't obey the law.

[–]Doopadaptap 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Cops should be PROTECTORS, not WARRIORS!

[–]DocAuch 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is the fourth fucking comment that is copied word for word.

[–]Jonas_- 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Cops should be PROTECTORS, not WARRIORS!

[–]Sloanosaurus-Nick 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Cops are an organized gang of criminals in every aspect except in name.

[–]NachoTheMacho 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Insanity- Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

[–]XnotCensortoday 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Underrated Comment.

[–]j0eg0d 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"We came out here throwing IEDs to blow up a courthouse, and they still call us terrorists."

[–]veryVERYniceGUY 2 points3 points  (5 children)

he’s literally describing how he’s escalating it

[–]mach0927 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right that’s why shit was lit on fire.

[–]downtothetraintracks 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Cops should be PROTECTORS, not WARRIORS!

[–]annonythrows 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Imagine living in fascist America and having the audacity to call actual democratic countries like Cuba “totalitarian”.... it’s hilarious the form of plutocracy we have with an illusion of democracy and Americans are so goddam brainwashed into actually believing we are the freest and best country on earth. It’s easy to push being the best when you are the unmatched strongest country in human history.....

[–]XC_Stallion92 5 points6 points  (0 children)

ACAB, as easy as 1312

[–]NitroScrooge 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No sympathy for the swine in blue.

[–]the1moonman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Mac is a fucking gem of a human being. One of the best messengers in this entire struggle in Portland.

[–]GlumExcitement9 1 point2 points  (3 children)

[–]Latent_Entropy 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You the guy with the alt accounts spamming " Cops should be PROTECTORS, not WARRIORS!" tho?

[–]-Listening 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is the rageblade useful? Looks like a STRIKE

[–]darby-dev 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh moms are terrible.

[–]GamerGoneMadd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Throwing IED's at federal buildings definitely isn't escalation.

[–]Josh__19 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay retard