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[–]omniscient_Frog 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What just happened?

Looked like Loma’s plan was to tire Lopez out and beat him the later rounds but how was he expecting Lopez to tire out at that pace? Loma could have won had he not just given the early rounds away so easily.

Props to Lopez. He did very well and deserved the win.

Who do you guys think would win the unlikely rematch? i personally think loma, assuming he actually fights the full fight?

[–]joecramerone -5 points-4 points  (7 children)

Did anyone notice at the end of round 11, the ref told teos corner that he had already won the fight and to not hit below the belt line to get a point deducted.

Kind of an odd comment coming from the in ring ref. Let me know your thoughts or if I'm overthinking it.

Obviously I'm in the camp that says loma won.

[–]hckr_known_as_4chan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Lol. Are you an anti vaxxer by any chance? Flat earther? Mormon?

[–]joecramerone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

None of the above? How about yourself?

[–]Raynobrak 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I haven't paid attention to this so I don't known if what you're saying is true but it doesn't matter anyway because it doesn't change the outcome of the fight.

I'm a fan of Loma too. He's literally my favorite fighter but there's no way he won, man. Watch it again.

[–]joecramerone 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Well it's definitely true I didn't make it up. It's a very strange comment to come from someone who is supposed to be completely objective and unbiased.

[–]Raynobrak 0 points1 point  (2 children)

When did it happen during the fight ?

[–]joecramerone 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The end of round 11. I'm not looking too deep into it, I just find it a very very very odd comment coming from the ref.

I'm sure you're aware that boxing is historically corrupt. Check it out and let me know your thoughts.

[–]Sityl 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You can't wait until the 8th round to start punching and expect to win.

[–]Raynobrak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I don't know what Loma was doing. I think it was part of his plan to "drown him" in the later rounds but I also think he got scared by Teo's power. Those right hooks to the body were scary...

[–]Wearebaguars904 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I can’t believe people thought Loma could stick with prime pacquiao. 😂

[–]Raynobrak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's no point debating who would win because it's not happening, ever.

But that would have been an interesting fight.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)


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    [–]KatonRyu 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Gotta admit I never thought Lopez would beat Loma. I still don't like the guy or his father, but he fought an incredibly focused fight, didn't slip up, and took a deserved victory. It wasn't an exciting match to watch by any means, IMO, but if I were Loma I wouldn't have risked eating Lopez's counters either and I think he did his health a great service by not trying.

    [–]Raynobrak 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Yeah I was impressed too. Lopez was focused, composed and just tough. Almost every time Loma started throwing punches, Teo would counter and stop him. He didn't give in to Loma's pressure.

    [–]Taesotoxic -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

    Teo: 1-7 and 12 Loma: 8-11 Teo won 8-4 If anybody had it a draw your an idiot

    [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If you don’t agree with me your wrong !!!!!

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    [–]Tomalumpa 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    The more I watch Alina the more I realize how overrated he is. Hall of famed for sure. But especially after this loss he was never the generational talent people thought he was.

    He took half the fight to make the adjustment he needed. Way, way too long.

    He’s also got a lot of miles on his body so this may signal the end of his prime. He’s not a young 32 training habits aside.

    [–]SirMartini 9 points10 points  (1 child)


    [–]SniXSniPe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I've come to realize just how important camera angle is. It's absolutely absurd they keep showing a fighter's back. It makes it extremely hard to tell if a punch lands. Even worse, when the fighter has fast hands (like Lopez) and you're not sure.

    So far I've re-watched two rounds. When I originally watched the fight, I gave Lopez like, the first 4 rounds and then Loma round #5. I think Lopez 6-7 & 12, also. So about a 7-5 score for Lopez.

    Round 2 was somewhat close, but still a Lopez round. I can see why Ward scored it for Loma, though.

    Round 5, however, was even closer, IMO. If anything, this round I gave to Loma.

    (x) 1:54 Lomachenko jab lands on the side of Lopez head/ear area

    (x) 1:52 Lomachenko lands a clean right hook on Lopez

    (o?) 1:52 Lopez almost lands a clean straight right in return. Loma did well to step back as it came because it appears to graze his chin.

    (x) 1:46 Lopez lands a clean right to Loma's body

    (x) 1:34 Lopez lands a jab to Loma's body

    (x) 1:22 Lomachenko lands a jab to the face of Lopez

    (?) 1:17 Lopez might have landed a jab to Loma's body. Shitty camera angle

    (x) 1:09 Lomachenko lands a jab to to the face of Lopez

    (blocked) :47 Lopez right uppercut to the body looked blocked

    (x?) :47 Lopez left uppercut to the body looks clean but appears to have been partially below the line?

    (?) :43 Lopez left jab looks like it might have either been blocked or a grazing punch, not sure.

    (o) :30 Lomachenko lands what appears to be a grazing jab

    (blocked) Neither fighter lands anything the final exchanges in the last 10 seconds. They both throw but nothing connects.

    Still haven't changed scoring for those two rounds. Will continue to do more tomorrow just so I can rationalize a 9-3 scorecard. Don't think 11-1 is even remotely possible.

    [–]torpedo_lagoon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    How good would Teofimo be if he had a real coach like Jay Deas?

    [–]ExternalNeck7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    An example of Loma getting inside by dipping low and moving forward (against Pedraza):


    But Pedraza wasn't using the distance jab to keep Loma away like Teo was doing. But God took an inch from Teo's neck and an inch from his torso, and put it into his legs. Pedraza, Linares and Teo all have wide shoulders. Teo has the leg length.

    [–]ExternalNeck7 4 points5 points  (3 children)

    Two boxers have the same reach, but one has wider shoulders, shorter arms. All else being equal, who has the most punching power with their dominant hand (assume conventional stance, with weak hand forward)?

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)


      [–]ExternalNeck7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'm trying to apply this to Loma-Lopez fight, since we know Lopez has a longer (68.5 inch vs 65.5 inch) reach and wider shoulders, and perhaps longer arms (humerus looks longer).

      The shoulder roll starts the acceleration, the larger pectoral muscles (larger because of wider shoulders) accelerate the arm, the biceps of the arm keeping the radius of the lower arm on target. In essence, there's a slingshot effect that begins with the shoulder turn, much like a flying pendulum clock.

      [–]Gigantonigro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Probably the other way around. They can accelerate their arms better and get more leverage leading to more force. The shorter armed guy being stronger physically though, because the opponent doesn't have as much leverage.

      [–]Platinum_Satellite 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      I had the exact same score card as Ward thought it should have been a draw, but Lopez looked great especially for his age hanging in there in a technical fight against a absolute wizard. I’m happy for him.

      [–]warm_baller 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      How anybody gave Loma the 2nd round is beyond me

      [–]ExternalNeck7 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

      Does a wide stance facilitated by longer legs contribute to one's power punches? It's obvious that Teo's longer legs and wider stance allow him to throw body shots from a distance. I think his foot size is up there too.

      [–]HandsofIron8 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Look at prime mike tyson, great example of widening a stance for power, when he was ready to punch his stance was wide, when he was on the move it got a lot more narrow.

      [–]ExternalNeck7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I'll have to take a look, but makes sense. A wide stance allows (a) the pushoff for leaning into the punch and (b) a base of support in delivering that punch through the target.

      Foot size adds to that widing stance and support, as well as maneuverability in the ring.

      After watching the Loma-Lopez fight again, I'm more and more asking myself if Loma was just fighting someone that was just too big for him. I think he could beat him a second time, just because he would have the off time to analyze Lopez and come back ready to make his style work.

      Lopez's shoe size looks an inch longer than Loma's.

      [–]theonetruekaiser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Narrow stance helps mobility and wider stance increases power

      [–]InfiniteStyles 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      It was a 116-112 fight I agree, I gave Lopez 8 rounds to 4, from 1-7, and 12th.

      But I wouldn't say it was domination. The only domination factor was the math in giving away 6 rounds !, In them rounds he was throwing under 10 punches per round in a pretty lightweight division which is next to nothing.

      In the rounds he was actually throwing he only lost 2 out of the 5, 7 and 12. Overall Loma won 4, gave away 6, and lost 2. If he started throwing with frequency in the 3rd round and the same result, then I'd call it domination, but he literally gave away 6 full rounds.

      Full credit to Lopez who was underestimated by Loma fans, the boxing community and especially by Lomas camp for that dead game plan.

      [–]Stonberg1 8 points9 points  (10 children)

      I'm genuinely trying to understand why everyone is saying Lopez "clearly won the fight". Not trying to start some catty back and forth. I really just need someone to explain it to me - like actual reasons, not that Lopez won because Loma is overrated or that Loma started slow (I guess that means pure non-technical aggression won those rounds for Lopez?).

      I watched it with the sound off and I saw Loma landing (on-screen stats) with far more efficiency (they were basically tied for output until the 12th. For the majority of the flight Loma would make Lopez miss and follow it up with clean head shots. Lopez landed body shots, but again, no more than Loma landed generally. He also landed uppercuts, but the majority of his punches were off a glove, glancing, on an arm, etc. And then obviously they both opened up in the 12th. Even Top Rank's post-fight highlight reel has two total Lopez body shots and otherwise a bunch of awkward half-landed stuff.

      So, specifically, Lopez won because - people think the body shots hurt Loma? Or Lopez "looked" stronger? or Loma started late (I see that for the first two rounds maybe)? When you're landing in the upper 40% efficiency and the other guy is nowhere near you, both fighters spent the entire fight walking forward and only one of them made the other miss a lot, how does the fight go to the guy who's punches looked stronger on screen regardless of accuracy?

      [–]Wearebaguars904 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      If he would have let them hands go in the first 6 rounds he would have been knocked out. He didn’t want to taste a fresh right hand counter. Loma isn’t and never will be an all time great. If he fought in the light weight division between the years of 00-10 they would have chopped his ass up and you would have never heard of him.

      [–]Jhawksmoor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      yeah overall, i don't think Lopez was that great, i feel like he won mainly bc of Loma's inactivity, points and rounds. barely hurt Loma, barely landed any significant shots except that combo in the 12th, but nothing Loma can't handle.

      when Loma was actually fighting after round 7, he had the better strikes, better exchanges, dodged all of Lopez's power shots.

      i think Haney, Gervonta and Garcia all have good chances against Lopez.

      [–]fadeddreams555 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Compubox showed Lopez landed more and was far more active. Compubox aside, I saw Lopez clearly winning 6 rounds straight by being active and neutralizing Loma's arsenal we're used to seeing. When Loma decided to wake up, he clearly won 5 rounds straight. Then, Lopez won the final one. I had it 7-5.

      Loma lost because of inactivity. Had he fought like he did at the end at least 2-3 rounds sooner, I would have given him an edge. He definitely landed the more significant shots in the bout, but they came too late. This fight felt like a turn-based RPG, where whenever one guy was active, the other guy looked lost. Not a single close round, imo. It was either one or the other's round by a mile.

      [–]ExternalNeck7 10 points11 points  (5 children)

      Don't you need the sound to determine the power of the punch and impact?

      [–]Goldwagg 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      Wait does this matter when it comes to scoring? Wouldn’t for example a left hand landing to the stomach score exactly the same as a left hand landing to the stomach with a big thump sound?

      [–]AntoniousTheBro 5 points6 points  (1 child)

      in amateur no it doesn't matter in pro however, somewhat. it depends on the judge. but one of the important factors they judge is the effectiveness of the punch so you do need sound to help guide you there but there are so many factors there. and certain judges prefer certain aspects such as ring generalship which early on lopez abused with effective ring cutting

      [–]Goldwagg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Ah okay, thanks man

      [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 2 points3 points  (0 children)


      [–]SFThirdStrike 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Why the hell did ESPN say this was for undisputed when Devin Haney has a belt at that division? And they wonder why people leave top rank.

      [–]fadeddreams555 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Because the WBC made the franchise belt transferrable for this fight. The only reason Haney has that belt was because Loma was elevated (not stripped) to Franchise champion.

      Haney didn't beat a champion, fight for a vacant title, or do anything to get that belt; it was literally mailed to him for free. He's less of a champion than Ugas is at 147lb for his WBA regular belt.

      [–]SFThirdStrike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      To be fair, they could have fought Haney but didn't. If people won't fight you there's hardly anything you can do. Knowing how Arum operates Haney will take a back burner due to his belief.

      [–]dianaupk 12 points13 points  (11 children)

      I'm japanese boxingfan. i tihnk lopez is winnner.But 119-109 ←NO!!!!!

      [–]kautica0 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

      Even if the judge gave 119-109 to Loma, Lopez would still be champ 😂

      [–]dianaupk 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      Loma has good technique,but he has no powerful and small figure about lightweight.

      So his attack was hard to appeal to judgement.I thougt Loma had more effective hit,but Lopez is more powerful. Will he be transferred to superlight weight?

      [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      With that being said there was a moment in the 10th round o believe that I thought loma might drop Lopez lol. I had it a draw. But have no problem with either fighter winning my problem was with the score cards like usual

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)


        [–]dianaupk 1 point2 points  (6 children)

        Thank you for your comment.115-113 Lopez is winner.

        1~6R Loma was too reluctant,not active. Final round is very important round

        victory and defeat. Final round Loma was damaged by Lopez's body shot.

        After the match Loma didn't protest this judgement.Maybe he knew his defeat.

        I want to watch rematch as soon as possible.

        [–]stoolsample2 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I don’t know about a rematch. I’d love to see it but I think Teo is gonna go up and loma may drop down .

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)


          [–]dianaupk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          There was no rematch clause in the contract, so I don't think a rematch will happen. In the press conference after the fight Teofimo said he doesn't want one.

          No rematch thank you for your information.Inoue!  It's been a year the match,

          I worry about his blanks.Moloney did the match June this year.He has no

          blank.Inoue say about moloney 「he is very aggressive,so it's hard to win」

          japanese boxer、、、my favorite boxer is Kosei Tanaka .He is 3 time champion.

          he is very quick.Ryota Murata?Honestly he is slow.

          [–]hkmedia 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Thank you (ありがとう). It is fun to hear from boxing fans around the world. I'm kind of new to the sport so I'll look up Kosei Tanaka.

          [–]dianaupk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Thank you for your comment. I am very happy to meet new boxing fans.

          [–]thelazydon 15 points16 points  (4 children)

          Loma still downloading

          [–]kautica0 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Where did downloading come from

          [–]ExternalNeck7 4 points5 points  (1 child)

          I'm wondering if the hits he took against Campbell and Linares has slowed down his computer interface. Ie, his movement to survey the situation is great, but the data collection isn't happening. Eg, he moves to the right then comes back. At 0:37 remaining in the 1st round, he does let himself continue moving to the right, right around Teo. The data collection would have been to see how Teo covers up, so that the next opportunity Loma knows. what to throw. I think getting hit so much affects one's confidence, so the computer is overloaded. It can't download the data.

          [–]THERAPISTS_for_200 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          I had it as a draw, but I had no problem with Lopez winning. Think those early body shots hurt Loma, and he waited too long to start getting aggressive.

          [–]vanteal 12 points13 points  (5 children)

          Regardless of how anyone feels about Loma vs Lopez, I think many of us can agree that the co-main even "Barboza Jr vs Saucedo" stole the show last night..

          [–]crisscrossed487 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Disagree hard it was a good fight but were talking about an undisputed word title fight that lived up to the hype I don’t see how that prelim stole the show

          [–]vanteal 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Because it was a completely different kind of fight. It wasn't a technical chess match with a lot of stop-n-go momentum. It was a "Fuck defense and let's just smash each other's faces in" kinda ordeal.

          A fight very reminiscent of the David Tua vs Ike Ibeabuchi fight years ago. Such fights are usually more fan-friendly than the chess match fights...And those two guys laid it all out and never stopped swinging. It was awesome!

          [–]Raider7oh7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          But those technical super matches are the best ones.

          [–]Hexys_broken_dreams 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yeah that was a banger start to finish

          [–]yyzcoinz 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          How would a Mikey vs Lopez fight go?

          [–]Katin-ka 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Mikey who?

          [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          I'm a fan of Mikey for sure but he would be athletically outmatched. Not that he's unathletic or anything, Teo just has some unique gifts. I think Mikey might have an advantage in strategy esp with his corner but not enough to make up for the former.

          [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I think it’s a great match up. Lopez obviously much more athletic and explosive but he seems to be a combination puncher for the most part. And Mikey might be the biggest puncher if he goes down to the weight class. So I would assume Lopez starts of winning the first half , but Mikey being a really big puncher can hurt Lopez much easier then loma. We saw Mikeys power but how bad he hurt Vargas at welter and he’s an even bigger puncher at the lower weights. Personally I think Lopez starts of winning on the score cards and Mikey ends up winning by stoppage.

          Mikey is also not as small as loma so Lopez won’t have such a size advantage.

          [–]Mismatchchamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Walll around Mexico

          [–]Cinnamon_Cin 11 points12 points  (49 children)

          I had Lopez rd 1-7 and 12 🤷🏾‍♂️

          [–]crisscrossed487 1 point2 points  (46 children)

          How in gods name did people have Loma winning round 2? He threw a whopping 2 punches maybe

          [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (44 children)

          I don’t think most people judge a pro fight by who threw the most punches. Most score a fight by effectiveness and who did the most damage in that round.

          For example three weak jabs does not win vs one big hook.

          [–]UBI1k 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Many fans judge the rounds by what boxer they like more

          [–]Raider7oh7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Yes that I can agree with. Everyone even judges are biased not even to just a specific fighter but to a certain style of boxing. Do you like punches in bunches or do you efficient boxers. Do you prefer slick boxers with good foot work , boxer puncher , aggressive punchers. You will have a bias no matter what. It’s about trying to be level headed and seeing how someone else could view a round. Our point of view is not the only point of view ... so when you get some numnuts saying “ no way loma could win the second “. Like really no way ? Lol

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Please direct me to where I ever said that bull shit. You’re acting like punches thrown/landed isn’t a critical factor in determining a fight

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (40 children)

          Nobody judges a pro fight by SOLELY punches thrown but it’s still a factor and 2 punches isn’t enough to win a round unless it leads to a knock down or knock out

          [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (39 children)

          It isn’t enough according to what rule book

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (38 children)

          Are you seriously arguing this right now

          [–]Raider7oh7 -1 points0 points  (37 children)

          Are you kidding me dude ? lol let me get this straight in a hypothetical round.... some guy throws 20 punches and lands five jabs . The other guy throws 3 punches lands one heavy punch. Your telling me no way the guy that landed the more effective punch can win the round ???? It’s EFFECTIVE aggressiveness not aggressiveness.

          I think this is one of those things were In the beginning of the conversation you were confident in your stance that “ 2 punches is not enough to win a round unless you drop the opponent”. I have never seen this rule. And probably now you know it’s obviously not a rule. But you will go down swinging defending your point of view. Even if your point of view is based on a rule you made up. So let’s just agree to disagree ?

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (36 children)

          The guy who threw 20 is clearly dominating the fight then most judges would give it to the guy who’s controlling the pace of the fight

          [–]Raider7oh7 -1 points0 points  (35 children)

          Lol what

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (6 children)

          There’s no need to bring hypotheticals into this when we can look at the real example, Loma threw less punches and landed more efficiently so he won right? He’s the undisputed champ right?

          [–]crisscrossed487 0 points1 point  (27 children)

          By your logic Loma won the fight bc he landed a higher percentage of his punches yet to say he won is asinine in reality

          [–]yyzcoinz 20 points21 points  (6 children)

          Fights like this just make you appreciate how great Pacquiao is. To be able to go from flyweight to welterweight and win a bunch of titles along the way and be competitive with guys that are naturally bigger is remarkable. We see someone like a P4P king like Loma have issues with naturally biggers guys like Salido and Lopez. Puts things into perspective regarding Pacquiao's legacy.

          [–]hcvc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          its crazy how mannys power has stayed with him through he weight classes

          [–]yourbrofessor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I think you meant remarkable

          [–]pinoyboy82 8 points9 points  (3 children)

          I think Pacquiao has really spoiled us to expect others to do the same. He really is one of a kind; to have the power, speed and durability to pull off what he has done.

          [–]Doggleganger 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          Agreed, we should appreciate Pac because what he did was special. Loma should drop back to featherweight. He's too small for lightweight, and it doesn't make sense for him to compete against all these bigger fighters.

          [–]dreamsofutopia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I'll never forget Pacquaio Margarito. Pac is 5.5, Maragarito 5:10 yet the way Pacific boxed his way to a unanimous decision...never seen anything like it.

          Margarito was no slouch but he couldn't attend the post fight interview and was sent straight to hospital where his right orbital bone had been found to be fractured

          [–]salvadorsanchez231 13 points14 points  (2 children)

          Lopez did his homework.

          [–]royalphlush 3 points4 points  (18 children)

          Loma is a bit overrated. 15 professional fights. 2 losses. Been knocked down. I get it with the amateur record and gold medals but this is big boy boxing now. 135 lbs Floyd/Manny/Crawford are clearly head and shoulders better than Loma.

          [–]Raider7oh7 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Well yea but to be fair loma is not a natural 135 pounder.

          [–]AndTheyAllKnowTricky 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Been saying this for ages and getting downvoted everytime. Now that he caught his 2nd loss... where they at?

          [–]hcvc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Same here man. They wanna crown this guy with like 13 fights meanwhile Canelo has gone up multiple weight classes (like all the greats do, floyd, roy jones, manny, etc) and has a way better resume.

          [–]JiubTheSaint 4 points5 points  (5 children)

          Not being better than two of the greatest boxers of all time isn’t some kind of knock against Lomo. He’s clearly a great fighter.

          [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 1 point2 points  (4 children)

          edit: nvm misunderstood

          [–]JiubTheSaint 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          He lost a close fight in his pro debut. Doesn’t disqualify him from being great imo

          [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          it was actually his second pro fight. Anyway, to be clear, I think Loma is a great fighter but not all-time great as some have suggested.

          [–]JiubTheSaint 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          Whoops, you're right. That's fair. What's the requirement for ATG status for you?

          [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          woo that's quite the question. To be honest, I am not really sure. I can say that there are definitely different ways to become an ATG.

          I think the biggest thing with Loma that would prevent him from hitting the ATG status is the lack of depth of his resume. It's hard to consider someone an ATG (and I'm only talking about pro) with only 16 fights.

          [–]lilJswizle-2304 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I don’t know. I’m a Loma fan so I could be biased but In my opinion Loma isn’t overrated. He lost his second fight which was against a champion and I think I saw that he got hit with like 40 low blows or something like that and the ref didn’t call any of them which yeah it could be argued that he should have fought trough it and won anyway but again it was only his second pro fight. I don’t think the knock down was necessary a hard shot that shook Loma I think he just got caught off balance because he was jumping in and to me it looked like he just lost his footing and got up right after although I haven’t seen the full fight so I don’t know what happened for the rest of the round after he got up. I honestly feel like he’s a little underrated at least commercially because it seems like a lot of people don’t really know who he is compared to other fighters like Ryan Garcia, Devin Haney and Tank Davis. It could just be my personal experience rather than the majority experience but I knew about Garcia, Haney and Davis first then I heard about Loma but everyone was talking about the other guys like they where the top of the devision despite Loma having most of the major belts

          Edit: sorry...I didn’t realize how long of a reply this was until now lol

          [–]WannaBeTycoon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Idk about current Floyd. He's 43 and his last real fight was 5 years ago.

          [–]vanteal 16 points17 points  (5 children)

          People seems to forget Loma was like 400-1 when he came into the pros. It's why he got a title shot in only is second fight, and why he's been fighting only champions since he became pro and making these guys quit on their stools. Loma is far from Overrated.

          [–]AtomicRainSpike -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

          Dude there have been other fighters who had unbelievable amateur records. Hundreds of victories and single digit losses. That had nothing to do with Loma getting a title shot in his second fight.

          [–]Scrambl3z 0 points1 point  (3 children)

          Agreed, like Rigondeaux . But because he was too boring, he never had the big fights he deserves.

          [–]AtomicRainSpike 0 points1 point  (2 children)

          He wasn't boring. He has a huge following in Japan, the UK and South America. He was so talented, that he had his titles stripped from him because NO ONE WANTED TO FIGHT HIM. Too many guys had no interest in fighting him. Fast forward ten years and he's 39. Now, to get a fight, he goes up two weight classes to fight Loma, who is ten years younger and bigger than Rigo. Rigo was coming off a two year layoff. Yeah technically, he had that one time up fight that lasted one round, where the guy tried to DQ Rigo.

          [–]thesaunaroom 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          People don’t know boxing always say Rigo is boring. His foot work and timing is on point. I always love his lateral movement.

          [–]AtomicRainSpike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Exactly. Rigo's foot speed in his prime, by itself put him on another level. You couldn't hit him and he could rip your jaw out of socket. It's no wonder no one wanted to fight him in his prime.

          [–]ExternalNeck7 11 points12 points  (2 children)

          Loma winning belts in three divisions in such a short time is still quite an accomplishment.

          [–]AtomicRainSpike 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Yes. But it's what modern boxing is now. Inoue broke that record earlier this year.

          [–]RustyTherapist1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          This. People are forgetting what he achieved just because he lost. Huge majority of ATGs have losses and what made them great was how they bounced back from it.

          [–]aimbot619 10 points11 points  (3 children)

          Lomachenko just turned up too late. He didn’t really turn up until the 7th round which was already too late.

          [–]coaster11 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          The corner should have told him after rd 2 to let them punches go!!

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)


            [–]Katin-ka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            That was so frustrating to me. Were they betting on a KO? Like, you can't give away 6 rounds and expect to win.

            [–]PlzBuffBeamu 6 points7 points  (1 child)

            Fight wasn’t close Lopez completely dominated loma. You could see from the first rounds Teos body punching was visibly hurting loma.

            That bullshit cut stoppage was a disgrace boxing is so fucking corrupt

            [–]bgusty 15 points16 points  (15 children)

            119-109 is an absolutely disgusting score from Lederman. It’s just as egregious as Byrd’s 118-110 in the Canelo fight.

            Lopez fought a good fight, and I give him credit for that. He fought far more technically than he usually does, and he had a good game plan.

            That said, I don’t think he really came in and took the win. Loma lost this one by not showing up to the fight before the 7th.

            [–]Bumi-sama 10 points11 points  (0 children)

            Teofimo must've felt a lot stronger than Loma anticipated

            [–]PlzBuffBeamu 7 points8 points  (9 children)

            It’s not even near similar to Byrd’s card. That fight was close a lot of people think GGG won that fight. This wasn’t close at all you can’t even make an argument for loma winning

            [–]bgusty -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

            It really is though. I gave Loma 8-11 hands down. 2 was a tossup and I thought Loma was cleaner in 7 than Lopez was. At the very least you have to give Loma 4, max was 6. Giving Loma just one round is either grossly incompetent or broadcasting that she’s for sale.

            It’s maybe just one step down from Byrd’s corrupt card.

            [–]whomenotme700 -1 points0 points  (7 children)

            At the very least 4? Nope. Compubox disagrees with you.

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

            I put 0 stock in compubox.

            It's literally 2 people sitting there with clickers determining what landed

            [–]whomenotme700 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            0 stock? At least those people are ringside and have better access to information(sound) then you. You think you can make better decisions on who hit than trainer operators that sit ringside?

            Do you further think that actual punch counts substantial differ from compubox statistics? Say +/- 10%?

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer -1 points0 points  (2 children)

            If you want to really debate it, I will. First off, you are ASSUMING there is someone sitting ringside to tally up those stats. In actuality it's a crapshoot of whether there is actually someone physically there ringside. So maybe my observation is just as valid (specifically for this fight, I very much doubt they sent someone into the bubble for compubox but even in normal times the point remains.)

            Secondly, this is not the amateurs. Judges are scoring "clean and effective punches" which has to take into account the power and effect of those punches. It also doesn't take into account the other 3 aspects - ring generalship, effective aggression and defense.

            Third, even if there are people sitting ringside to push the buttons, I think their judgement is severely limited by...well, just being human. If judges who are sitting ringside can have (and often do) completely different scores than other judges also sitting ringside, it's pretty safe to assume there can be some substantial differences between the compubox counters and what they consider landed. Especially when they provide these stats in between rounds, it means these people are trying to tally the punches in real time.

            [–]whomenotme700 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Okay, assume no one is there. You still have someone trained to do that as their JOB. Why do you think your observations are any better?

            Do you keep a notebook and track landed jabs and power punches? If you debate the validity of the data then of course you can make up any narrative you like. That seems to me very convenient as a boxing fan.

            I agree that having the only variables collected being landed or not landed is rather primitive. But shall we throw out this data because technology is not yet good enough to get us better variables? I think that the use of compubox stats comes with the obvious caveat that punch power or damage is not taken into account.

            I don’t think your argument is very strong. You said you put 0 stock in compubox as in you find the data collected completely useless. If that is the case then boxing is relegated to talk of what one saw, given that the only other objective data we have are knockdowns and formal referee warnings.

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I agree it's nice to have something to point to as an indicator. And to that, I concede that I don't put literally "0 stock" in those numbers. My whole thing is I don't think those numbers can be the primary factor in discussing the scoring of rounds. Supplemental or corroborating, sure, but it should not be the first thing pointed to and/or viewed as factual/authoritative.

            [–]bgusty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Lol compubox doesn’t tell you everything. He landed more in 3, and tied in the 4th and in that round Loma landed the more effective shots. I’m not saying Loma should’ve won, but only giving him one round is another black eye on boxing.

            [–]tech_fredq 12 points13 points  (2 children)

            I just can't believe Lomachenko's gameplan. I've watched the fight twice now, Loma properly turned up in round 11, so he knew he would stop Lopez in the last 2. That says to me he was over confident in his own ability and grossly underestimated Lopez's.

            [–]bgusty 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I just don’t understand how you can come in to a unification fight and throw less than 15 punches a round for the first 6 rounds. 4 punches in round 1? Fucking 4? Just start the fight off with a gift round.

            At that point you’ve basically committed to needing a stoppage to avoid a draw.

            [–]tech_fredq 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Yea because he actually thought he was that good and Lopez was that bad. I guess that teaches him a lesson...

            [–]brooklynscholar 14 points15 points  (0 children)

            Rematch and maybe loma will wake the hell up a little sooner. Or maybe not, possibly out sized and out boxed. Loma lost fair and square

            [–]Bumi-sama 9 points10 points  (1 child)

            Re watching the last half of the fight

            Thought teofimo only won the 12th but he clearly won rnd 9 as well

            [–]buckleyk12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            I also thought he won round 7

            [–]Uyemaz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            This was a fantastic bout, fight of two halves. Felt that Loma waited far too long to get started. Teo answered lots of critics tonight, and his Fight IQ is definitely not in question no more. I felt that Loma dominant rounds were better than Teo, cleaner hits, better strings of combos connected. Teo won the first 6 Rounds with his activity, where Loma surprisingly wasn't doing much. Have to say that Loma lost this fight more than Teo won, I dont want to take anything away from Teo because he deservedly won, just Loma was questionable in his approach, and when he got going I thought he was going to get a knockdown or two in the 10-12 round, but Teo showed great heart and hunger in the 12.

            If there is a rematch, I gotta go Loma, as I said, his dominant rounds seemed more damaging than Teo's

            [–]rjd623 29 points30 points  (3 children)

            This is what happens when the best fight the best. Illusions are shattered, questions are answered and stars are born. This is why I fucking love this sport.

            [–]Focusriteae 0 points1 point  (2 children)

            But the best so rarely fight the best...

            [–]thekorexicanThis is boxing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            In a perfect world we’d have

            Garcia/Tank Spence/Crawford Canelo/Charlo Plant/Benavidez Haney/Teo Fury/AJ Bivol/Beterbiev

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Of all of those, aside from Spence/Crawford, I think a Plant/Benavidez fight would low key be the most interesting. Complete contrast in styles and some genuine bad blood to boot

            [–]Ulable 5 points6 points  (33 children)

            If Loma was a ATG he should have beat lopez last night. I dont care about the natural weight class argument. I will say I didnt like when he said he wasnt going up any higher in the build up to this fight. All the ATGS fight above their weight class. If you cant beat someone with 20 lbs on you your not one of the greats. If your hesitant to get in the ring with someone that is bigger than you, you’re in the wrong sport.

            [–]MaestroOfMayhem -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

            Are you fucking stupid?

            [–]Ulable 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Y so mad tuff guy

            [–]ElectricJeffPierce 4 points5 points  (3 children)

            What about Hagler?

            [–]Ulable -1 points0 points  (2 children)

            I guess Im talk TBE. Yea hes ATG when u fight for a world title that early in your career. But for real i wasnt watching boxing in the 80s but to me, hagler didnt challenge himself like SRL and Hearns did.

            [–]ElectricJeffPierce 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Yeah Loma’s definitely not TBE, even the ATG argument isn’t too strong if the best wins on his resume are GRJ and Linares.

            [–]Ulable 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I guess when I saw him fight I thought he could be. Feel like his boxing ability is extraordinary. According to armchair analysis u cant have off nights and be tbe. Regular athletes have off nights and i guess so did loma.

            Thats why this fight got me thrown off, it was strange. So is floyd mayweathers career for real.

            [–]coaster11 8 points9 points  (17 children)

            If Loma was a ATG he should have beat lopez last night

            SRR lost when he went up to fight for the light heavy. does that dq him from ATG?


            [–]crisscrossed487 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            He’s BEEN fighting at 135 that’s a sorry ass excuse

            [–]Ulable 3 points4 points  (15 children)

            Loma going to 135 is NOT srr going to 175. Ray going to 147 to 175 is a jump only TBE do. And Loma already talking like he aint going any more. Duran went up to 154 and 160 and floyd went up to fight canelo. I didnt say he wasnt atg but dude, he acted shook. Bro u fought 400 fights and your 6 rounds scared of lopez’s power, wtf

            [–]coaster11 -1 points0 points  (14 children)

            not saying he is. SRR was a middleweight that went up to LW. LW was the next weight up. Super middle was not created until later. A 147 going to 175 is a trainwreck. He didn't jum from 147 to 175.

            [–]Ulable 1 point2 points  (13 children)

            SRR made 147 on the same day as his fights. Dude challenged himself, ya he was a big 147 but still that epic going to 147 to 175. Like SRL and hearns did. Loma unified 135 and is very much a naturalish lightweight. Hes 5’7 right? Like dude lift some weights, u fight 400 fights and you act like you’re fighting julian jackson. Lopez can fight but dude seems basic

            [–]coaster11 -1 points0 points  (12 children)

            roy jones at 1.55.

            "loma not a lightweight"


            [–]Ulable 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Roy aint a heavy weight either yet he beat ruiz and is fighting tyson. When u a fighter u dont go in the gym and see someone that weighs 10lbs more than u and say naw dawg

            [–]newaccountfirstday 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I feel you on this.

            Of course weight matters. We all know this.

            That's the point. It means something to beat someone naturally bigger. I feel like in MMA weight has become too precious and that used to be a fun aspect of that sport. Recently there was a guy who said he'd beat someone much bigger and people thought he was joking. He just said no, he came from a jiu-jitsu background where you have to fight everyone and nobody says, "I can't go, he's 30 lbs. heavier than me."

            [–]Ulable 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Yep, you’ve already given up when you say this guy is too big for me

            [–]Ulable 2 points3 points  (8 children)

            Ya he is a LW thats why he had three titles. Ive only casually been following boxing since 2010s but didnt loma win his gold medals at 126 im guessing. Like i said hes 5’7 he can fight a LW esp if u suppose to be one of the ATGs. I really dont even get ur point. My point is, just like all of 2020. This sht dont make no sense. U dont fight 400 fights and get shook from lopez, either that or loma just aint the fighter people thought he was. I wonder if it was low key fixd bruh

            [–]coaster11 -1 points0 points  (7 children)

            its ok you are sort of new to boxing...listen to roy.

            point is fighter much bigger/stronger guy who is as large as a 140 pounder made loma too cautious...Lopez is a bad dude before this fight and after.

            [–]Ulable -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Lopez is basic

            [–]Ulable 1 point2 points  (5 children)

            I boxed 4 9 yrs in 2000s. And thats when i watched 100s of hrs of fights. Ill say again u dont fight 400 fights and only have 2 losses and b that scared of power. U acting like Lomachenko has never fought anybody as strong or as good as lopez.

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (4 children)

            well has he? can you name one that he fought with 8oz gloves without headgear?

            [–]ethnicbonsai 9 points10 points  (5 children)

            The flip side to this is that losing doesn't automatically disqualify someone from being an ATG.

            Pacquiao has lost numerous times - and to fighters you wouldn't put in his class. SRR lost to fighters not in his class. The list goes on.

            In the rounds that Loma was active - he dominated Lopez in a way that Lopez didn't when Loma was inactive. That doesn't mean nothing.

            [–]LazyJabWBA's title belt manufacturer 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            It does disqualify Loma because he just doesn't have the runway left to compensate for a loss like that...

            By contrast, Pac started fight as a pro at 16 and is still fighting so you can point to a ton of evidence of him being an ATG

            [–]ethnicbonsai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Loma is 32, and doesn’t get hit like Pac does. Nobody knows his much “runway” he has left.

            To be clear, I’m not saying Loma is the the next Pac-Man. Not am I saying he is an ATG.

            But it is too premature to rule him out right now. Fighters have come back from worse than this.