all 154 comments

[–]pouvoir1998 298 points299 points  (12 children)

"proto is one of the best edgeguarders in ult"

he is the best edgeguarder in ult and its not even close

[–] Zero Suit Samus (Ultimate)Srijand 107 points108 points  (4 children)

Mute was saying Diddy is impossible to edgeguard and then you see Proto do it with 2 different characters

[–] very biased JP fanPrevious_Stick8414 66 points67 points  (2 children)

Not only that, nearly half the Diddy stocks taken were from edgeguards iirc

[–] Zero Suit Samus (Ultimate)Srijand 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Yep. He's the undisputed best edgeguarder in the world. I'm biased and I'll say Marss was really good at edge guarding pre quarantine too but that's also because zss is excellent off stage

[–]worldonitsaxis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think marss is still up there with Proto.

While zss is exceptional at edge guarding horizontally, she has a really hard time covering low recoveries. Also, her 2-framing options aren’t great so she doesn’t discourage predictable low recoveries.

I think people overrate the versatility of zss edge guarding because marss is so good at it.

[–] Lucina + Min Min (Ultimate)pika_pie 18 points19 points  (0 children)

He's impossible to edgeguard if you're using the wrong characters.

Proto just happens to pilot two arguably top-five edgeguarders in the game.

[–]HollowLoch 116 points117 points  (5 children)

Leffen was right

[–]pouvoir1998 57 points58 points  (0 children)


[–] Sonicthestormz 8 points9 points  (3 children)

What did leff said

[–]HollowLoch 61 points62 points  (2 children)

That edge guarding is broken in Ultimate and Ultimate players suck at it

[–]Marth/Lucina, Palutena, PT, and Incineroarjet_10 21 points22 points  (1 child)

I remember Nairo kept saying that about Cloud too. I feel like he was def one of the more aggressive players that went off stage

Everyone seems to go for ledge trapping instead

[–] Marth (Melee)Tresnore 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And the 2-frames that I've only seen work a handful of times.

[–] Lucina (Ultimate)Tery_ 161 points162 points  (9 children)

Ladies and gentlemen I'm happy to announce we are over two hours ahead of schedule.

Perhaps we mald at another mafia game?

[–]HollowLoch 56 points57 points  (8 children)

What did they think would happen in groups to schedule gauntlet so late lol

[–] I don't actually play Min Minsirgamestop 99 points100 points  (0 children)

They were probably making sure they had enough time scheduled for any tiebreakers, the one last Summit lasted like an hour

Edit: also expected more Game 5s as well

[–] Bowser (Ultimate)DHMOProtectionAgency 47 points48 points  (1 child)

acola starts another tiebreaker infinite loop.

[–]Fun In The Chaositsastart_to 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Any chance we could convince them to bring Lui$ and Desmonda for that intial 3 way round Robin? /j

[–] Fox (Ultimate)algis31 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Tiebreakers probably

[–]RepulsiveDesk4298 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Probably another infinite three way tie like last summit lol

[–]Ivysaur (Ultimate)powergo1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

1 hour of ads

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 126 points127 points  (2 children)

Banham's Lucina is mesmerizing, it's insanely good and makes me almost believe him when he saws Lucina can win every matchup

[–]Jepacor 55 points56 points  (1 child)

Banham's Lucina is so fast and aggressive it makes me feel like he doesn't play the same character compared to when I play Lucina lmao

[–]Marth/Lucina, Palutena, PT, and Incineroarjet_10 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I genuinely don't know how he moves the way he does and throws out the moves at the speed he does lol

I wish I could move like him

[–] tea/acola fan!swidd_hi 119 points120 points  (3 children)

Takes five month hiatus

Still beats top 5 players with relative ease (the Lucina is still RAW and Min Min moves)

Phonemical player man

[–]Rectangle_Rex 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Seriously, Proto playing like he was in the hyperbolic time chamber for those 5 months

[–]VargoHoatsMyGoats 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I think people really highly overvalue these chars that require tons of investment because of their ceilings but tbh wolf, lucina, etc prove that if you value fundies you can do anything.

Proto is just a fundie god. Edgegauring and catching jumps like meta changes never happened.

[–] very biased JP fanPrevious_Stick8414 76 points77 points  (0 children)

wins Summit again

elaborates in Japanese but no one understands

goes back to Japan and consistently places only top 8

[–][deleted] 85 points86 points  (11 children)

Someone who uses character switching to his advantage against someone who doesnt

[–] PikachuKyleTheWalrus 102 points103 points  (8 children)

It's honestly downright bizarre that the world's best Lucina is also the world's best Min Min. No wonder people have so much trouble fighting him, imagine if Dabuz could just press down B and turn into Leo in the middle of a set. How do you even adjust to that? Proto's a two-in-one human being. Pyra/Mythra IRL

[–]Marthwichee 27 points28 points  (6 children)

And it’s two vastly different character archetypes. Like you could make an argument that spargo is the best cloud and aegis (not anymore imo) but like they’re both swordies so it doesn’t have the mixup advantage like protobanham

[–] Lucina + Min Min (Ultimate)pika_pie 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I also dual-main both Lucina and Min Min. I disagree with the "vastly different character archetype" that tends to float around.

I think, once you learn Min Min's unique control scheme, piloting both characters isn't that hard for the player. The general game plan is to use safe, aggressive disjoints to push the opponent up and out, where both of their character's elite edgeguarding rack up enormous damage or take/steal stocks. The way you do both are different, but it's actually not that difficult to switch between the two, especially because both characters are relatively simple.

It's actually way harder for the opponent to adapt, because their threat bubbles and timings are different. While I'm nowhere near Proto's level, I find that I have a much easier time sticking to the gameplan despite switching than the opponent has trying to figure out how to break it.

[–]samurairocketshark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean it seems like a deliberate choice from proto to cover Lucina's weaknesses unlike Dabuz who plays the characters he likes and now has a character crisis because of it

[–] Piranha Plant (Ultimate)seasonedturkey 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Banham abusing the fact that he adjusts to his characters faster than his opponents can. He's a freaking genius I love him.

[–]RepulsiveDesk4298 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Lmfao ☠️☠️

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 80 points81 points  (1 child)

can't decide which i love more, the protobanham lucina or the protobanham bible

[–]RealPimpinPanda 28 points29 points  (0 children)

The Proto bible is what allows him to flourish, he spreads his teachings from it through his Lucina. So it’s gotta be the bible we love

[–]justice_for_lachesis 74 points75 points  (2 children)

banham is the best american player

[–]Prominis 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Just like Tea is #1 EU.

[–]PT, Marth, WolfSalamanderCake 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tied with Leo for #1 EU.

[–]HollowLoch 62 points63 points  (1 child)

This is what everyones been waiting for

Literally could be grand finals, the two only undefeated Summit winners squaring off in groups

[–] Zero Suit Samus (Ultimate)Srijand 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This gave me Light vs Proto vibes when they faced off in Group D. Maybe this if foreshadowing for grands

[–]Mii Swordfighter (Ultimate)DragoCrafterr 58 points59 points  (1 child)

Protos book is the funniest thing to come out of this summit I love it

[–] Piranha Plant (Ultimate)seasonedturkey 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's gotta be a huge momentum killer for his opponent. Banham's using the rules (or lack thereof) to his full advantage.

[–]HollowLoch 43 points44 points  (7 children)

Proto is so amazing at covering banana with MinMin how does he lose to these JP Diddys

Its actually not even a joke how hes a completely different player in NA

[–]Son_Der 76 points77 points  (5 children)

it's about prep time, he's mentioned on stream before that during JP locals he doesn't prepare for specific players since he doesn't know whom he might face. when he comes here, he prepares for the players and he is basically Batman with that prep

[–]HeavyRainborn 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Yeah people are laughing when he shows up with his massive notebook, but it pays off! Invitationals are perfect for preparing, which is why he does amazing at summits. I really wanna see Leo's MK versus him, but that's gonna require one hell of a run from Leo now

[–]HollowLoch 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Damn well props to him, putting in the work to study your opponents and getting results is well deserved

[–] Lucina (Ultimate)lightsentry 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Honestly he was depressed after the SWT cancelation, and after this summit I can see why. I can't imagine how much work he put into prepping for the world tour if this is what he put together for Summit.

[–]Mcfallen_5 18 points19 points  (0 children)


[–] Female Corrin (Ultimate)Owl_Star 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Lmao he has pictures and everything. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out he has each players W/L on certain stages on there. His switches look random but I’m sure he stayed up late making a plan.

[–] PikachuKyleTheWalrus 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Maybe he's just a businessman at heart and he's only motivated by international prize money lol

[–] Buff Falco.BarnardsLoop 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Proto's adaptation is genuinely crazy. I thought the set was gonna boil over after game 2 but he just absolutely rattled Tweek's momentum by refusing to let him keep working against the Lucina. Both of these characters lose to Diddy but his playstyle is so insanely variable.

Him going from mid range play with minmin game 3 to full on rushdown with full exploitation of Diddy is genius shit. Love Proto so much

[–]pouvoir1998 31 points32 points  (2 children)

tweek talked about it on the podcast, but it really says something when proto consistently shows up in top form at these big events. idk how you can not have him top 5.

[–]Ipokeyoumuch 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I think it is because he underperforms in Japan including those who don't travel outside Japan much. However, Proto has stated that in Jaoan he doesn't put as much prep for these tournaments (since they tend to be one day affairs) and gets tripped up more easily. While for invitational and international tournaments he predicts and preps for specific players, which we can meme with THE BOOK he brings.

[–]namnamdd 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I would prep 10x more too if 60k was on the line

[–]kfaox 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Proto brought laminated notes. I'm dead

[–]PerseusRad 28 points29 points  (5 children)

I'm such a big fan of Proto. I like how he's able to switch on the fly. He feels like he really knows what he wants to do, and executes it. It's a bit hard to explain, but the only other players I really get that from are Leffen and Zackray.

[–]Ezeitgeist 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Would love to hear more and how leffen and Zackray fit in as well

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 14 points15 points  (2 children)

zackray had the legendary set (i forgot the opponent sorry) where he picked sonic for game 2 just to collect data after losing game 1 and then came back and destroyed

[–] Pyra & Mythra (Ultimate)Malex2005 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think that was Maister at TBH 9, could be wrong about this

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

sounds right, i remember a g&w being involved

[–]PerseusRad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I should specify that I'm talking about Zackray's ROB in particular. I feel like they have excellent situational awareness, and know exactly what their win condition is. Often I feel like Ultimate gets sloppy naturally, just because the pressure of another top player ends up messing them up. I always felt like the players I mentioned could hit their punishes and mixups perfectly, practically every time. They felt dutifully practiced.

[–]ShotsAways 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Goddamn, Proto’s Lucina is fucking clean.

[–] Zombie (Ultimate)speeritoflove 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Some people may so Leo's Joker, but to me, Proto's Lucina is the most special player-character combination in the game. He's actually just different

[–]HollowLoch 17 points18 points  (0 children)


[–]RepulsiveDesk4298 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Hot set alert 🚨

[–]spritehead 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Blazing hot

[–]Megadevvv 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Japan viewers have to wait till tomorrow

Also is acola the only person projected to get first seed who actually got first seed?

[–] My friends are my power :)skrasnic 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Everytime I watch a Proto set I think, "Okay, X character is kind of getting figured out, I don't think the switching thing is going to work this time."

And then the switching thing works. Every time.

[–]GRABCrinkleroo 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Sets like these make Proto look like the best player in the world. The character line up and the ability to keep both hot and throw off his opponent is really crazy. Feels like the closest thing to what Plup does in melee with Fox/Sheik. At least, from a viewer perspective.

Side note, I think Mute is amazing on comms. Really likeable guy. I'm going to miss Summit giving us a window into stuff like that.

[–]GrandAdmiralLuke 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I missed him so much, he is sooooo good

[–] Lucina (Ultimate)Chedderfanbro 38 points39 points  (4 children)

Switching back to Min Min is certainly a choice. I get it worked on Leo but idk if this tactic is good vs Tweek lol

Edit: call me hollowloch the way this prediction was wrong

[–]L99_DITTO 29 points30 points  (2 children)

Even if it doesn't work out in the future, I feel like we gotta stop doubting it at this point. It's 100% his thing and if it doesn't work out in a certain instance shouldn't change whether it was a good idea or not because he's shown that most of the time he's able to adjust to the switches back and forth way quicker than his opponents.

[–] Lucina (Ultimate)Chedderfanbro 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Hard agree

[–]L99_DITTO 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Just having to change up your recovery patterns against Banham must feel so difficult for his opponents because while both Min-Min and Lucina both edgeguard, they do it in such different ways, he's such an interesting player to watch compete.

[–]l339 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Its the Proto special! Honestly worked really well so far for him

[–] LucinaIceAnt573 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Tweek always felt like a Lucina downplayer to me. So those Lucina games felt so good.

[–] Piranha Plant (Ultimate)FreezieKO 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Banham in NA is a monster. I love the constant switching, and the synergy of his two characters.

[–] RidleyMasterofknees 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Proto made Diddy's recovery look bad. His edgeguarding is so good.

[–] Cloud (Ultimate)vvilkas 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Banham’s Lucina is honestly a work of art.

[–] Lucina + Min Min (Ultimate)pika_pie 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Proto makes me so happy to have chosen Lucina + Min Min as my co-mains.

The two characters have very similar gameplans despite very different control schemes, but the opponent is forced to play so differently around the two of them.

And everyone says they're boring characters, but every time I see Proto play, he pulls out something new in nearly every game.

It's a blast to root for Proto and to see my two favorite video game characters of all time clashing with the best on the biggest stage.

[–]spritehead 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Minmin is crazy underrated in the west because Proto is not here often. People have no idea what this character is capable of. Like people think it’s easy for Diddy or Fox or whatever because they put her in the blender but it doesn’t matter when she’s going to blow you up or edge guard you early.

[–] very biased JP fanPrevious_Stick8414 33 points34 points  (0 children)

I really want a repeat of Banham's Summit win

It would be such a flex because he didn't even compete for 4 months(besides locals) before Summit 6

Edit: Banham bought out a whole ass textbook of notes, lmaooo

Holyshit these edgeguards. Banham looking like the best player in the world rn

[–]Greninja (Ultimate)senbonshowers 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Proto will beat tweek solidly and then lose to Chicken's diddy next week

[–]Pichu (Ultimate) Mythra/PyraOne_Adhesiveness_586 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Why are there 2 threads for this

[–] Sheik (Brawl)Obachan 25 points26 points  (3 children)

2 threads to represent Proto's 2 water bottles

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 14 points15 points  (2 children)

2 threads to represent proto's 2 characters

[–]justice_for_lachesis 10 points11 points  (1 child)

2 threads to represent minmin's 2 arms

[–]RealPimpinPanda 8 points9 points  (0 children)

2 threads to represent the only 2 stages picked all set

[–]Mr. Pac-Manneautralnathaniel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's ok. Mods deemed me slow. Here's the other thread

[–]HollowLoch 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Japan looking real good

[–]Daisy (Ultimate)TannerIGuess 25 points26 points  (0 children)

This is said ironically sometimes, but truly nobody is playing Lucina like Banham. That dude makes you believe in that character

[–]HollowLoch 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Proto in NA is not a real player how is he not the best in the world

[–] Shulk (Ultimate)AllIWantIsCake 8 points9 points  (1 child)

He's like the only top player who plays better when jetlagged.

[–]Ipokeyoumuch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reverse aMSa.

[–] Ryu (Ultimate)yomamaso__ 7 points8 points  (1 child)

There’s already a thread for this guy

[–]Mr. Pac-Manneautralnathaniel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's ok. Mods deemed me slow. Here's the other thread

[–]oniden 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Holy hell Proto played so well. The character switches worked wonders too.

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 4 points5 points  (0 children)


[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 5 points6 points  (0 children)


[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 6 points7 points  (1 child)

TIL min min throw also powers up her up B

[–] Min Min (Ultimate)anweisz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It powers up the “a” arm (not the special arm that switches, even when you set it to dragon), so it powers up every move that uses it. The “a” tilts, smash, nair, the tether and a boosted laser even when the smash attack isn’t charged.

[–]surpenttt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Loses to a diddy that I've never heard of in JP and then beats tweek in NA GIGACHAD

[–]Zelda (Ultimate)vincom2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

blitzed by banham

[–]Radiorxy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Banham looking poised to win Summit again.

[–] Falcon (Melee)FewOverStand 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Proto's Lucina is art.

[–]Mii Swordfighter (Ultimate)DragoCrafterr 3 points4 points  (0 children)


[–]Jabacha 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Banham is too damn good

[–] Min Min for the win win!Meester_Tweester 5 points6 points  (0 children)

ProtoBanham has tied up the Tweek lifetime H2H 2-2, and has taken the lead 2-1 post-quarantine!

Last Summit group match fellas 😢

[–] Pit (I started playing him a day before Kagaribi lol)L1N3R1D3R 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love Banham, man. Diddy might win these matchups on paper, but between Banham's edgeguarding and his control over the banana, he looked unstoppable after game 1.

[–]Voks 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Proto lookin like Robin with that tome of ancient knowledge

[–]ralphy0027 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Does anyone else try to play Lucina after watching Banham and just not understand how he makes her look so fast

[–] Mewtwo (Ultimate)tungsten_V 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This was absolutely my most anticipated set of the day, could go either way

[–] Pichu (Ultimate)ificommentthen2oops 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Last time they played was the summit spargo won right? Or was it summit 5? Either way I think they are 1-1 and it was both from the same summit, Tweek won in pools and Protobanham won in bracket

[–] Min Min for the win win!Meester_Tweester 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Tweek is 2-1 as he beat him at EVO 2019

Proto won last set at Summit 4 Losers' Quarters, and Tweek won at Summit 4 Gauntlet

[–]JessFromCali 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Is this the 1st time Tweek lost to a Lucina? I don't recall this happening before

[–] Fox (Melee)Grenji05 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Acola the only #1 contender to make it straight to bracket and not have to go through the gauntlet 🤔

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I knew Banham had it, he's fucking goated and Tweek was absolutely not ready!! I got downvoted so hard for it!

[–]PokemonMasterGreen 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Too many people sleeping on Banham

[–]pouvoir1998 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Japan #1 in case anybody forgot

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 10 points11 points  (8 children)

I just don't think Tweek can do it, Proto 3-0'd him with Minmin and had Aaron as a good warm-up for both his characters.


[–] Genesis > Super BowlParkouricus 3 points4 points  (2 children)

im so sorry for the injustice

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Give me back my upvote bro

[–]justice_for_lachesis 2 points3 points  (0 children)

they hated him because he spoke the truth

[–] Think you can take me? Don't forget meSevere-Operation-347 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Nah, when Tweek Talks, everyone should listen.

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

W Tweek W Tweek W Tweek

[–] Pichu (Ultimate)ificommentthen2oops -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

They are 1-1, the only two times they played was at Summit 4 where they traded sets, saying Tweek can't do it is a bit of a stretch lol, I see this as 50/50 either way

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I base then on Proto beating Aaron and beating Tweek last time 3-0

[–]SnakePokemonMasterJamal3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Slight correction: Tweek also beat ProtoBanham 2-1 at EVO 2019 (although that was a while ago, lol).

With Banham's win here, they're now 2-2 lifetime.

[–] Think you can take me? Don't forget meSevere-Operation-347 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This is probably going to be on par with Leo vs Gluto as the most hype set for today so far.

[–] Marth (Ultimate)IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And we haven't even gotten into the Gauntlet, we're eating today

[–] Lucas (Ultimate)mattmortar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lowkey AK vs Hbox is up there too

[–] Lucas (Ultimate)mattmortar 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Why does Charles keep calling him Banham? I get it's part of his name, but I've never heard anyone call him that before.

[–] Xenoblade Chronicles LogoSelfDestructGambit[S] 49 points50 points  (2 children)

It's because Banham is actually how he'd prefer his tag to be shortened, not Proto. According to SeanFromSchool, in Japan everyone shortens his tag to Banham.

[–]kfaox 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Everytime I hear Japanese players refer to him they call him Banham

[–] Lucas (Ultimate)mattmortar 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Oh dang. Didn't know that

[–]not_a_pyschopath 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It was that damn book!

[–]good old falco, nothing beats thatFynmorph 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey what was in ProtoBanham's cookbook? Was it matchup data or translation helps?

[–]huge-tits 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn’t get to watch this set, but I’m surprised Tweek didn’t try switching to Seph at least once. I think Tweek would benefit from switching to Sephiroth even on a win to just keep his opponents honest.

[–]shadowmachete 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this set is really reflective of different attitudes towards advantage state. Proto, obviously, is trying to cash out for the kill. Tweek is trying to hold advantage, and ledgetrap for damage and maybe a kill. But frequently, the latter approach means that tweek leaves free opportunities on the table. For example at the start of game 3, minmin is offstage without a jump, tweek’s at 0%, and he does nothing. It’s safer, sure, but I think that kind of safer playstyle bit him here.

[–]bathroomcornerdust -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How the fuck do top players see this Lucina then say she isn’t a top 20 character?